[DTM] 2012 driver line-up

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Succes at Audi opens the door to LeMans, BMW the same, and Mercedes has multiple F1 teams to influence. While I agree on your description of DTM I don't agree on that there's nothing to win.

BMW is bugging out of sports cars to focus on DTM. The ALMS remains for now but only on account of BMW North America. Mercedes has placed one driver in F1, the others have missed the boat and are just killing time. Out of all nine drivers Audi had at Le Mans none have graduated from the DTM. And with Bonanomi they again hired someone outside of the DTM/Audi family (Lex Tréluer, Lotterer, Fässler). At most these guys get to race GT3 cars, which is mostly just a pasttime. A career graveyard if I ever saw one.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

It would be the best alternative to F1. Being a factory driver in DTM, LeMans or international endurance racing in general I think is the next best thing?

yep. the goal of many young drivers isn't always f1, it's just to make a career out of racing, and get paid to race cars. how and why isn't particularly important. their first choice is usually f1, but in the end...

the grosjean test is a gravity management (and genii) thing - marco wittman, another gravity driver is also testing.

see here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96610

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by MJones94

And why do they still have Frey?!!!

I know Merc and Audi had a quiet agreement to each run a lady, but have BMW also agreed to this, or will this quietly be forgotten?
Anyone know?

Frey does have some talent but she jumps around from series to series too much to get up to speed.

[Bernard Bram]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

In endurance racing, you can win Le Mans. In the states, Indy 500. Australia has Bathurst. The DTM is just a title ...

Common misconception. The DTM isn't even an official championship, it's just a "Masters" whatever that means. So technically there's no official title to win.

[jondownunder]

Mika Hakkinen will test a Merc this week:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96659

Mercedes motorsport vice-president Norbert Haug said that the test was not a precursor to a full-time comeback in the series for Hakkinen.

"He has been a member of the Mercedes-Benz family since 1995 and secured two Formula 1 World Championship titles with McLaren and us to afterwards successfully compete in DTM, with Mercedes-Benz," Haug said.

"This test was a desire of both Mika and us and you shouldn't draw any further conclusions from the fact that he is going to test the car."

Well, maybe, maybe not. Would love to see him back in the DTM, obviously has an itch to scratch hence his ILMC outing...

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

Mercedes has placed one driver in F1, the others have missed the boat and are just killing time.

Albers also landed a F1 seat after his (first) DTM carreer and Paffett got very close.

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

Out of all nine drivers Audi had at Le Mans none have graduated from the DTM.

When Audi hired Luhr, Rockenfeller and Prémat, they all got a combined DTM + Le Mans seat.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Albers also landed a F1 seat after his (first) DTM carreer and Paffett got very close.
When Audi hired Luhr, Rockenfeller and Prémat, they all got a combined DTM + Le Mans seat.

Close is no cigar. Albers brought millions of dollars to his F1 seats, so that's a moot point. Luhr and Rockenfeller were both Porsche factory drivers with half a career at Le Mans - they weren't given that opportunity because of anything they did in DTM. The one guy they did give an opportunity went out on his backside and ever since they've been recruiting their drivers from within the endurance scene.

[Hawkwood]

BMW have signed 32 year old American racer Joey Hand. He is their 5th signing, only one more space left to go for. DirkWerner is most likely I would have thought, he's tested for them loads and without him they'd have only 1 German.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by Ostrogothicus

BMW have signed 32 year old American racer Joey Hand. He is their 5th signing, only one more space left to go for. DirkWerner is most likely I would have thought, he's tested for them loads and without him they'd have only 1 German.

And that's actually sad. I don't want to sound nationalist, but the majority of drivers in a German series should be actual Germans. If out of 18 drivers only 7-8 are Germans, that's pretty sad. Imagine if in the British Touring Car Championship only a handful of Brits would race, or if there only a handful Americans in IndyCar...oh wait!

But it's still good for Hand. This should give him a whole new experience, which might come in handy in later stages of his career.

[W.A Trichlorostyrene]

Originally Posted by DS"

And that's actually sad. I don't want to sound nationalist, but the majority of drivers in a German series should be actual Germans. If out of 18 drivers only 7-8 are Germans, that's pretty sad. Imagine if in the British Touring Car Championship only a handful of Brits would race, or if there only a handful Americans in IndyCar...oh wait!

But it's still good for Hand. This should give him a whole new experience, which might come in handy in later stages of his career.

Hard to compare DTM's situation with IndyCar. At least your foreigners aren't random ride buyers with questionable talent, coming from the other side of the pond Most of them are considered as part of the best touring car drivers of the world. Hell, wasn't Priaux a triple world champion? You guys should be proud to see this kind of high profile drivers migrating to your country!

As for BTCC, most of its fans refeer to the SuperTouring era as the golden age, and guess what, there was only a couple of Brits on the grids back then. And I'm pretty much sure that most of them would be over the moon if say a Rydell, Menu or a Tarquini decided to come back racing in the UK!

[NaBUru38]

I agree with WAT. And anyway DTM is very European, just in a German way.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by W.A Trichlorostyrene

Hard to compare DTM's situation with IndyCar. At least your foreigners aren't random ride buyers with questionable talent, coming from the other side of the pond Most of them are considered as part of the best touring car drivers of the world. Hell, wasn't Priaux a triple world champion? You guys should be proud to see this kind of high profile drivers migrating to your country!

I agree, that most international drivers are pretty talented. But then there are drivers like Wolff, Frey, Coulthard or Schumacher, drivers who only serve marketing purposes and take away driving spots for talented drivers. There are many talented German drivers who never got a shot at racing in DTM, like Rene Rast. Or drivers who never got a proper chance in DTM like Lucas Luhr or Alexandros Margaritis.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by DS"

I agree, that most international drivers are pretty talented. But then there are drivers like Wolff, Frey, Coulthard or Schumacher, drivers who only serve marketing purposes and take away driving spots for talented drivers. There are many talented German drivers who never got a shot at racing in DTM, like Rene Rast. Or drivers who never got a proper chance in DTM like Lucas Luhr or Alexandros Margaritis.

True, but it'll always be like that. Racing = marketing.

[Alex K]

German motorsport market have such a huge potential a talented and good drivers will find good drives, if not in Manufacturer based DTM than in the best GT series in Europe GT Masters, if not there, than somewhere else (Carrera Cup, Supercup, Le Mans series', etc.). There is a huge quantity of talent in DTM, and I don't mind the series being taken over by Brit drivers ;-).

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by DS"

And that's actually sad. I don't want to sound nationalist, but the majority of drivers in a German series should be actual Germans. If out of 18 drivers only 7-8 are Germans, that's pretty sad. Imagine if in the British Touring Car Championship only a handful of Brits would race, or if there only a handful Americans in IndyCar...oh wait!

But it's still good for Hand. This should give him a whole new experience, which might come in handy in later stages of his career.

Can't disagree more, drivers should be picked solely based on talent on not on nationality.

We live in a world where nationality means less and less on a daily basis and that's a good thing. Plus, it's kind of traditional for the DTM, just look at the past champions, a large chunk of the series' most successful drivers came from other countries.

And even in the "good old days", the sharp end of the field was largely made up by drivers like Kurt Thiim, Kris Nissen, Alessandro Nanini, Giancarlo Fisichella, Dario Franchitti, Jan Magnussen, JJ Lehto, Keke Rosberg etc. etc.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Can't disagree more, drivers should be picked solely based on talent on not on nationality.

Then how do you the explain the fact that Susie Wolff, Rahel Frey, Ralf Schumacher and David Coulthard all have seats for 2012? While you can argue that the latter two might be talented in some way, I don't see any talent in the former two.

We live in a world where nationality means less and less on a daily basis and that's a good thing. Plus, it's kind of traditional for the DTM, just look at the past champions, a large chunk of the series' most successful drivers came from other countries.

The DTM is still the top of German motorsport, and as such I expect the manufacturers to put more efforts in supporting talents from Germany. It also gives people new drivers they can identify with. I don't want to say that the grid should be completely German. But if we're going to 21 cars in the next season, then there should be at least 10 Germans in the grid. But judging by all rumours and confirmations for 2012, I only count 8.

And even in the "good old days", the sharp end of the field was largely made up by drivers like Kurt Thiim, Kris Nissen, Alessandro Nanini, Giancarlo Fisichella, Dario Franchitti, Jan Magnussen, JJ Lehto, Keke Rosberg etc. etc.

And on the other hand there were Bernd Schneider, Klaus Ludwig, Uwe Alzen, Frank Biela, Hans-Joachim Stuck, Joachim Winkelhock, Franz Engstler and so on, and so on. Even Ellen Lohr was way better than any female DTMasters driver.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by DS"

The DTM is still the top of German motorsport, and as such I expect the manufacturers to put more efforts in supporting talents from Germany. It also gives people new drivers they can identify with. I don't want to say that the grid should be completely German. But if we're going to 21 cars in the next season, then there should be at least 10 Germans in the grid. But judging by all rumours and confirmations for 2012, I only count 8.

The manufacturers can't afford to "support" drivers, they need the best talent they can find to be as competitive as possible. I`m pretty sure BMW would rather have another 1 or 2 German drivers but it's not their fault that there are no suitable drivers out there. Rast, Werner, the Müllers & Marco Wittmann have tested for them and if none of them get picked then their performance wasn't good enough - Simple as that.

It's not like BMW is forcefully ignoring able German drivers and picks other drivers just because they aren't German, they simply pick on who's best suited for the job and one can only applaud them for that. Unlike Audi & Mercedes they haven't picked a single driver for obvious marketing reasons.

And, just to get back to the series history, BMW is simply following their own footsteps here. Back in the day, their most successful drivers in DTM were called Ravaglia, Soper & Cecotto .. nationality always played a very little role with their picking of drivers.

Again, I just want to see the best drivers out on track, regardless of where they come from. And I can identify myself with Joey Hand or Andy Priaulx as much as I could with any German driver... we all pick our favorites based on their driving & personality anyways, don't we?

[MJones94]

Seeing as Buemi and Alguesauri are both out of a job do we reckon they might get swept up by one of the 3 teams in DTM? before Grosjean was signed he openly admitted to having DTM as a fallback and I think some other drivers might share that approach.

[kurski]

Mika Häkkinen testing next week Barcelona possibly, Mercedes-Benz DTM car and whether he is returning this year DTM series?.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by kurski

Mika Häkkinen testing next week Barcelona possibly, Mercedes-Benz DTM car and whether he is returning this year DTM series?.

Oh dear, the Mercedes DTM squad is really evolving into a Formula One retirement home. Although I'd rather see Häkkinen than Coulthard AND Schumacher in DTM.

On the bright side, Roberto Mehri is likely to get a seat with Mercedes in 2012 as well. So at least they are bringing in some new blood into their ranks.

[kurski]

Originally Posted by DS"

Oh dear, the Mercedes DTM squad is really evolving into a Formula One retirement home. Although I'd rather see Häkkinen than Coulthard AND Schumacher in DTM.

So and Nick Heidfeld name is also connected to a couple of times, Mercedes-Benz DTM team.

[FIRE]

Or it's just for PR. Mercedes likes that sort of attention.

[kurski]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Or it's just for PR. Mercedes likes that sort of attention.

It may be, but Finland is thought that the Häkkinen, possibly making a comeback. It makes no sense to test even a promotional sense.

[FIRE]

Dirk Werner completes BMW's line-up.
Source: www.autosport.nl

[kober]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Dirk Werner completes BMW's line-up.

Andy Priaulx, Augusto Farfus, Bruno Spengler, Martin Tomczyk, Joey Hand and Dirk Werner. Not bad at all