Code 60 flags in operation

[Bodysnatcher]

For Piglet, who maybe needs to see how it works in reality.

Zandvoort.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV1jsKf6Ne4

skip a lot of this one

In this video the camera car passes the incident at 9.00, but takes till 9.15 to pass a green. By 9.20 the code 60 is just being displayed by the post after the green.
He passes another without significantly slowing, but when he comes to the start finish and sees a slower car in front, that plus the flashing yellows on the gantry get the message across. 9:30.

a lot of weaving then follows, but it takes less than a lap to clear the car out the gravel, green at 12:05 and he's caught napping.

shows how quickly a safer speed can be established across the whole field

(anyone else have links?)

[Piglet]

Ta, can't stream video at the mo, will look tomorrow night.

[Bodysnatcher]

Reading (the organiser) Creventic's rules for the Dubai 24h, it also says that competitors must slow to walking pace in the accident area. The 60 flag and the yellow can be displayed together.

[bluebeard]

This system is excellent, instantly neutralises the race, it keeps everyone/gaps as they are so nobody gains/loses out, and it is respected by the drivers. It is monitored by the timekeepers via timing loops in the track.

[ss24355261]

Steve Swallow
we used it in Dubai for the 24 hour and it worked very well.

[Bodysnatcher]

yeah, I've done a couple of Dubai 24h jobs, but can't find any footage of code 60 in operation there. All I could find was Dutch clubbies, which in a way may be more relevant to what we might consider a similar system for in the UK.

trying to find some spectator/trackside video of a recovery during a code 60..

incar tends not to show that except for the briefest of moments.

anyone?

[hellblade]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

anyone?

Yeah go on google and type in 'code 60 flag', click on the video option and you should have three vids to choose from.

[Bodysnatcher]

thanks Hellblade Luke, done that already.

one of them is the link given in my first post
another is from a bike on board and makes me sick to watch it
and the Integra type R clip has 2 people on board, so not racing , did not watch it fully.

could you add a link if what you found was different

have found another showing a marshals' post during a code 60, very good video if you are an insomniac, will link in a mo..

[Bodysnatcher]

cross the track?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbpatoYf_00

I could resurface it in these gaps

beware not to be viewed by those with a low boredom threshold
zzzzzzzzzz

[juliet]

only watched the first quarter and i could have dressed a BP oil slick in that gap!

[Bodysnatcher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGtphufAFiw

Spa, skip to oil flag on entry to bus stop chicane at 2;42
code 60 flag on exit at 2:46, instantly obeyed!
followed by slowest run through Eau Rouge ever captured on a race car camera

similar a full lap under code 60 from onboard a Caterham exists
zz still no sign of an incident on it..

[hellblade]

by all accounts il skip watching that , il have a scrummage around and see what i can find

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

For Piglet, who maybe needs to see how it works in reality.

Zandvoort.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV1jsKf6Ne4

skip a lot of this one

In this video the camera car passes the incident at 9.00, but takes till 9.15 to pass a green. By 9.20 the code 60 is just being displayed by the post after the green.
He passes another without significantly slowing, but when he comes to the start finish and sees a slower car in front, that plus the flashing yellows on the gantry get the message across. 9:30.

a lot of weaving then follows, but it takes less than a lap to clear the car out the gravel, green at 12:05 and he's caught napping.

shows how quickly a safer speed can be established across the whole field

(anyone else have links?)

Interesting to know how the driver can slow to the correct speed when his speedo doesn't work.

[The STIG]

Isn't this similar to what the old yellow and black quartered flags were supposed to achieve?

[Paul Newns]

Not quite. With the "battenburg" the leader slowed to 50 mph and acted as safety car, with everyone else forming a train behind.

Unfortunately, not all drivers did as intended and so we got a situation similar to the Code 60 with cars all around the circuit, some travelling faster than others to form little groups. That made some people reluctant to get out and deal with the incident, and definitely prevented speedy snatches/recovery.

Also, not all clubs adopted it. I won't go into the rationale behind this. It's been discussed before at length.

[Andy Johns]

Have a look here:

http://www.24hdubai.com/?page=511

for a code 60 on the first (yes FIRST!) lap of this years Dubai 24hr. The incident is shown at 12:30 in, the code 60 flag is shown at a couple of posts, then the green at 13:08 in. Interesting that some drivers don't respond to the green and lose places, but then the code 60 had been out for some time as major armco repairs were needed.

[Chigley]

Seems like a good system, my only comment is that it's an awful flag colour that seems difficult to see. Is there any other notification?

[Stack]

This is the first i've heard of this "code 60" so have to ask the questions...

Where did it come from
Who is using it (not MSA or FIA I assume)
What is the rules concerning it
What is wrong with the current SC procedure (despite waving a yellow at an empty track!!!!)

Surely we should be aiming for standardization, Its bad enough switching from MSA to FIA at some meetings.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Stack

This is the first i've heard of this "code 60" so have to ask the questions...

Where did it come from
Who is using it (not MSA or FIA I assume)
What is the rules concerning it
What is wrong with the current SC procedure (despite waving a yellow at an empty track!!!!)

Surely we should be aiming for standardization, Its bad enough switching from MSA to FIA at some meetings.

[Chigley]

What is wrong with the current SC procedure (despite waving a yellow at an empty track!!!!)

You still get drivers roaring round the track to catch up with the train, especially if they have left the pits, making incident handling a lottery in not knowing if everyone is behind the safety car. Also an awful lot of skilful driving to build a winning gap can be negated at a stroke.

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by Stack

This is the first i've heard of this "code 60" so have to ask the questions...

Where did it come from

Holland

Who is using it (not MSA or FIA I assume)

primarily a continental race organiser (Creventic)

What is the rules concerning it

field slows to a speed of 60kph when flag displayed, instead of a safety car deployment.

What is wrong with the current SC procedure (despite waving a yellow at an empty track!!!!)

my bugbear now is that for "minor" SC deployments we have to wait for the leader to come round to have the SC put in front of them (and that is not always successful). can take welll over a minute

gaps exist in which cars are free to run at race pace

the yellow flags that are being displayed communicate nothing and are totally devalued as a way of signalling an incident ahead

anyone that has built a gap loses it

once the incident is cleared you often get an extra SC lap, (the SC car being too close to the track exit point to do the lights out, speed up thing)

if the leader has not ended up directly behind the SC, it can take extra laps to sort out

Surely we should be aiming for standardization, Its bad enough switching from MSA to FIA at some meetings.

Change can be for the good. Remember when Red flag only used to be at start line?, marshals posts displayed Black flags.

We're not talking (YET) about it being introduced, just a discussion on how it works.

the battenburg was nearly right - but as noted earlier some organisations had issues with it.

So, for certain race organisations that use SC in short races, would it not be a good thing to look at ways of minimising the neutralisation time, whilst providing track workers with a more controlled environment and at the same maintaining the competitor's hard won advantages.

You just have to look at how many times BTCC meets use SC, & recent issues at Silverstone

[johngee]

Originally Posted by Chigley

Also an awful lot of skilful driving to build a winning gap can be negated at a stroke.

I'm reminded of a quote from Mario Andretti (who knows more than most of us!) who, when questioned about that situation (admittedly behind a safety car) summed it up very well ..... "You win some, you lose some"
I like that attitude!

[Peter Harding]

Did the search and came up with this site:

http://www.ourslifeforce.com/sport/m...ts-motorsports

which explains all flags including purple. Not as clear as I would have hoped but is great fun trying to interpret

[Bodysnatcher]

Thank you Peter, now, whisking along

Direct from from the organisors of the Dubai 24h etc (it's a 90 page pdf, so I've copied and pasted the relevant)
my bolding

30. Flag SignalsThe rescue services and race control are organized in compliance with the prescriptions of the Appendix “H” to
the FIA International Sporting Code. The drivers must carefully study these provisions, respect the signals and
the instructions given by the marshals. The flag signals do not release the drivers from their obligation to avoid any
endangering of other driver if he/she perceives a situation danger.

Additional to the flag signals referred to above; The CODE-60 (Purple) FLAG (SAFETY PROCEDURE) is
applicable for this Race (12H/24H).This CODE-60 FLAG (SAFETY PROCEDURE) will be prescribed in article 31.
According to art. 2.10 of the Appendix “H”(ISC) Light boards might substitute the flag signals in darkness.
The light boards and other light signals used during the 24H Race must be respected in the same way as the
flag signals mentioned before.
The flag signals described in the International Sporting Code are applicable, and additional the CODE-60 SAFETY
PROCEDURE FLAG is applicable this race.

31. Neutralizing of the race by means of a Safety code-60 Procedure (purple code-60 flag).

31.1
As described in Article 29.7: Race Control will:
Instead of the use of a safety car to secure areas of danger or accidents, for additional safety reasons, race control
will neutralize the race by means of a code-60 Safety Procedure (code-60 flag).
Introduction of Safety code-60 Procedure
The idea behind this Safety code-60 Procedure is additional safety in case of an accident or other insecure
situation.
By means ALL marshal posts will SIMULTANEOUSLY show the code-60 flag (PURPLE FLAG, with the NUMBER
60 on it), all drivers on the track will be notified, the Safety code60 Procedure is brought in to operation.
The main (safety) advantage of the Safety code-60 Procedure is the fact that ALL cars will lower there speed
immediately, the maximum speed will be 60km/hour and overtaken is strictly forbidden.
This means that the complete track is secured immediately, and rescue marshals and rescue vehicles can do there
important work on a save way.
Maximum Safety is the only reason of this Safety code-60 Procedure. Only of secondary matter, there is no
advantage or disadvantage for none of the drivers, because all cars will drive (maximum) 60km/hour (the distance
from car to car will stay the same). By means of the several time-intermediates in the track, timekeeping will
automatically measure the speed of all cars. In case of exceeding the speed limit (occasionally or on average) this
will be sanctioned.

31.2
The Safety Code-60 Procedure will be brought into operation to neutralize the race upon decision of the Clerk of
the Course. It will be used if competitors or officials are in immediate physical danger but the circumstances are not
such as to necessitate stopping the race.

31.3
When the order is given to deploy the Safety code-60 Procedure, ALL marshal posts will SIMULTANEOUSLY
display waved PURPLE flags, with the NUMBER 60 on it.
At the moment the code-60 Flags are shown, ALL drivers have to release the throttle immediately.
(Unless also the Yellow flag is waived, it is not advised to brake suddenly)
During this code-60 Safety Procedure it is forbidden to exceed the upper speed limit of 60km/hour. Overtaking is
strictly forbidden during this Safety code-60 Procedure. On decision of The Clerk of the Course this can be
penalized with a time penalty of 1minute!

31.4
While the code-60 Safety Procedure is in operation, the Pit Lane is open, so competing cars can enter the pit lane
and rejoin the track. A car rejoining the track under these conditions will proceed at reduced speed (speed limit is
60km/hour).

31.5 Sanction:
Any car that exceeds the speed limit of 60km/hour can be sanctioned, with a time penalty of at least 10 seconds.
The Clerk of the Course can increase this time penalty with the double value of the encountered advantage when
driving too fast.

31.6 When the Clerk of the Course gives the order to end the code-60 Safety Procedure, ALL marshal posts will
SIMULTANEOUSLY display waved GREEN flags. At the moment the GREEN flags are shown, the race will
proceed and it is allowed to overtake.

31.7 Each lap completed while the code-60 Safety Procedure will be counted as a race lap.
If during this procedure the time should reach the end of the race, the chequered flag will be uses as normal to
finish the race.

31.8 Failure to respect the walking speed obligation in the area of a danger, failure to respect the flag and light
signals or the endangering of marshals on duty can result in a penalty inflicted by the Clerk of the Course and/or
the Stewards of the Meeting.

[m1fcf]

Originally Posted by Peter Harding

Did the search and came up with this site:

http://www.ourslifeforce.com/sport/m...ts-motorsports

which explains all flags including purple. Not as clear as I would have hoped but is great fun trying to interpret

cant see those instructions working here as most of the descriptions start 'Kept Quiet' - I dont think I have ever met a marshal who has kept quiet!!

Anyway, about the Code60 flag: it does looks like a good alternative, and the drivers in these videos really do take notice.

How does the Code60 get deployed? Is it a radio call to deploy all points, or does it begin at the startline and work round (like current SC board deployments)?

If it is the latter, then I can see a similar situation to SC chasing happening until the cars get back to the startline.