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Old 1 Oct 2016, 12:18 (Ref:3676244)   #1276
Jaguar4
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And Spirit of Daytona is owned by Jim France.
Visit Florida Racing (SOD) is owned by Troy Flis.
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Old 2 Oct 2016, 02:43 (Ref:3676619)   #1277
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Doesn't matter to a lot of people. AXR, SOD, and Ganassi were funded out of France's/ISC's pockets until 2012 or so. Felix Sabates (co-owner of Chip Ganassi Racing) admitted as much in his deposition when he filed for divorce from his then-wife.
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Old 2 Oct 2016, 03:02 (Ref:3676622)   #1278
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Doesn't matter to a lot of people. AXR, SOD, and Ganassi were funded out of France's/ISC's pockets until 2012 or so. Felix Sabates (co-owner of Chip Ganassi Racing) admitted as much in his deposition when he filed for divorce from his then-wife.
Was and is are two different things, period!





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Old 2 Oct 2016, 04:24 (Ref:3676626)   #1279
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Was means that those teams wouldn't have probably existed if France hadn't subsidized them. ALMS had the opposite problem of teams subsidizing the series, hence why Audi and Porsche left.
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Old 2 Oct 2016, 04:31 (Ref:3676627)   #1280
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Considering France is responsible for the title sponsor of the team (it isn't Spirit of Daytona Racing anymore, it's Visit Florida Racing, and you don't need to look very hard around ISC tracks to figure out the connection there), the shop, and the car, I'd hardly say it's "was"
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Old 2 Oct 2016, 05:27 (Ref:3676630)   #1281
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Doesn't matter to a lot of people. AXR, SOD, and Ganassi were funded out of France's/ISC's pockets until 2012 or so. Felix Sabates (co-owner of Chip Ganassi Racing) admitted as much in his deposition when he filed for divorce from his then-wife.
Not just those three - MOST of the DP entries in GA were just as subsidized.
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Old 2 Oct 2016, 08:52 (Ref:3676654)   #1282
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And yet they're the only three teams involved in IMSA right now, though Ganassi is doing so in the GTLM class with Ford Racing backing. Point is now that SOC/AXR now have to pay their own way, even if ISC funded and paid for a lot of their finances until just a few years ago.
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Old 2 Oct 2016, 11:27 (Ref:3676682)   #1283
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Visit Florida Racing (SOD) is owned by Troy Flis.
No it ain't my friend

Troy Flis is purely the public face of it. He has not had a sponsor of his own work ever.

The truth is out there if you wish to look.
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Old 3 Oct 2016, 03:24 (Ref:3676910)   #1284
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jesus christ who cares at this point.

just race some damn cars
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Old 4 Oct 2016, 16:34 (Ref:3677269)   #1285
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No it ain't my friend

Troy Flis is purely the public face of it. He has not had a sponsor of his own work ever.

The truth is out there if you wish to look.
You keep saying this... but, it's just not true.
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“We’re trying to close the doors without embarrassing ourselves, the France family and embarrassing (the) Grand American Series,” he said in the deposition. “There is no money. There is no purse. There’s nothing.”
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Old 5 Oct 2016, 19:02 (Ref:3677596)   #1286
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You keep saying this... but, it's just not true.
+1.

I guess adding makes it somehow more true or relevant.
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Old 5 Oct 2016, 19:05 (Ref:3677597)   #1287
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Not just those three - MOST of the DP entries in GA were just as subsidized.
Because no other racing series in history has done this. You truly do have your fingers on the pulse of the sport.
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Old 5 Oct 2016, 23:46 (Ref:3677661)   #1288
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Because no other racing series in history has done this. You truly do have your fingers on the pulse of the sport.
When did I ever say nobody's ever done it before? That's right: Nowhere.

But the sad truth is that most people are simply not aware that the DP field was almost entirely subsidized - there are many people who look at how many entries the class got and simply assumed they were doing something better.
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 03:27 (Ref:3677723)   #1289
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But the sad truth is that most people are simply not aware that the DP field was almost entirely subsidized - there are many people who look at how many entries the class got and simply assumed they were doing something better.
Realy?

I guess I would agree .. . simply because 95% of the people on this planet have never heard of Rolex or IMSA. But among sports car racing fans in North America ... I had never heard it was a secret ... we have certainly discussed it here and on the ALMS and Speed boards.

And, hey, get out your tinfoil hats ... NASCAR's home team has won the IMSA championship three years running.
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 05:30 (Ref:3677741)   #1290
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Realy?

I guess I would agree .. . simply because 95% of the people on this planet have never heard of Rolex or IMSA. But among sports car racing fans in North America ... I had never heard it was a secret ... we have certainly discussed it here and on the ALMS and Speed boards.
Indeed we have discussed it in these parts. But even so, the majority of sportscar fans simply did not know, and you should know full well that back in the Speed days there were QUITE a few people on the board who actively refused to accept the notion that DP could ever be subsidized.
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 07:17 (Ref:3677758)   #1291
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jesus christ who cares at this point.

just race some damn cars
Could you have picked a worse time to use this than 2 days after the last race of the season?

I am actually getting pretty worried about 2017. All the potential growth in the prototype class is coming from teams believing they can finally bring an ACO spec car and compete on completely fair terms, but there's a lot of history to suggest that IMSA will favour manufacturer dollars and the chosen teams over car counts and competition when it comes to keeping people happy. It won't kill the series because it's a viable business model, but it would be terrible for the sport.
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 09:02 (Ref:3677776)   #1292
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... there's a lot of history to suggest that IMSA will favour manufacturer dollars and the chosen teams over car counts and competition when it comes to keeping people happy. It won't kill the series because it's a viable business model, but it would be terrible for the sport.
It has been status quo since ... forever with the whole G-A/Rolex establishment. Nothing will get any worse ... the only question is is it still stupid to hope for something better.
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 09:03 (Ref:3677777)   #1293
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I am actually getting pretty worried about 2017. All the potential growth in the prototype class is coming from teams believing they can finally bring an ACO spec car and compete on completely fair terms, but there's a lot of history to suggest that IMSA will favour manufacturer dollars and the chosen teams over car counts and competition when it comes to keeping people happy.
You can't say that here! How DARE you not blindly accept that DPi is brilliant!

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It won't kill the series because it's a viable business model, but it would be terrible for the sport.
It's only viable as long as the manufacturers are interested. Once said interest is lost, there's no guarantee the privateers will come back with the ACO-spec cars. Burn them hard enough and they're GUARANTEED to stay away even once the manufacturer interest dries up.

It's very much in IMSA's best interest to be as fair as possible here. But I have to agree that I don't trust them to do so. I'll believe that they'll fairly balance the DPis with the P2s when I see it.
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 11:32 (Ref:3677803)   #1294
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But the sad truth is that most people are simply not aware that the DP field was almost entirely subsidized - there are many people who look at how many entries the class got and simply assumed they were doing something better.
Well, they were doing something better. It didn't necessarily pass the Real Sportscar Fan Purity Test, but on the other hand they didn't end up with a marquee class with 2 entries.

Seems a silly thing to still get all hot & bothered over. if the series broke out the checkbook and helped subsidize, say, PC teams buying new P2 chassis, I wonder if the same folks would have an ideological issue with it.
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 12:48 (Ref:3677816)   #1295
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I am actually getting pretty worried about 2017.
Oh boy.

Maybe some of you need to seek professional help for your anxieties about something that doesn't have any impact on your quality of life.
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 14:19 (Ref:3677838)   #1296
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Well, they were doing something better. It didn't necessarily pass the Real Sportscar Fan Purity Test, but on the other hand they didn't end up with a marquee class with 2 entries.

Seems a silly thing to still get all hot & bothered over. if the series broke out the checkbook and helped subsidize, say, PC teams buying new P2 chassis, I wonder if the same folks would have an ideological issue with it.
Interesting scenario you're bringing up here, let's say IMSA (or whoever behind the scenes) is using some of the mnf. fees to support PC (and GTD?) teams to purchase and run WEC spec P2s to increase the grid and give the DPi's some more "artificial competition". Of course, those "NASCAR-backed-P2s" would have a slight performance disadvantage so to not upset the favored DPi entries...

Probably not even remotely close to reality but perhaps not completely fantasy either, hmmmm.
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 14:22 (Ref:3677840)   #1297
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I mean its not like the manufacture backed teams haven't cleaned house all the time in the past or anything
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 14:22 (Ref:3677841)   #1298
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Could you have picked a worse time to use this than 2 days after the last race of the season?

I am actually getting pretty worried about 2017. All the potential growth in the prototype class is coming from teams believing they can finally bring an ACO spec car and compete on completely fair terms, but there's a lot of history to suggest that IMSA will favour manufacturer dollars and the chosen teams over car counts and competition when it comes to keeping people happy. It won't kill the series because it's a viable business model, but it would be terrible for the sport.
I think things will be as equal as they can be, but most of the teams wanting to run a spec P2 seem to be in the market for a gentleman driver. Maybe this will change in the future but as long as there is an am in one seat the team is going to be gunning for the auto invite to Le Mans, and that is a big selling point to somebody wanting to go to Le Mans and fund the team in imsa.
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 15:19 (Ref:3677859)   #1299
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I think things will be as equal as they can be, but most of the teams wanting to run a spec P2 seem to be in the market for a gentleman driver.
This will be another important issue, which will make discerning balance difficult. if the teams running P2s are the less prepared teams, running less prepared cars ....
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 15:29 (Ref:3677861)   #1300
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This will be another important issue, which will make discerning balance difficult. if the teams running P2s are the less prepared teams, running less prepared cars ....
Just more fodder for the forums!
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