[Driver] Vettel vs Webber: Round 2

[Fox89]

He made a couple of mistakes

Mistakes are as big as their consequences and he was off track a few times, bashed into a few people, lost his front wing and managed to bring the fastest car on the grid home in 9th from the front row.

I like Webber, don't get me wrong. And although he has a bit of previous so do a lot of drivers, for the most part he's a good driver. But today was pretty horrendous

[jab]

It wasn't horrendous. He went off track twice. Get some perspective. This stuff used to happen all the time in the past

It was poor. It was sloppy. But it was not horrendous. Horrendous makes it sound like he's been incredibly slow and taken out about 5 cars en route to 15th. With the fastest car having started 2nd. But he didn't

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by jab

If that's horrendous, then how would you describe Piquet Jr's career?

Extra horrendous, totally disastrous.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by jab

It was poor. It was sloppy. But it was not horrendous. Horrendous makes it sound like he's been incredibly slow and taken out about 5 cars en route to 15th. With the fastest car having started 2nd. But he didn't

Jab, listen... it was an horrendous B+.

[OZ_HCR32]

Horrendous is the day Schuey had racing STRs and Saubers where he made no progress.

The fact that Webber could actually make progress through the field and circumstances compounded his mistakes in my eyes means that i think his day was horrendous. But an easy 50% of todays performances comes down to Webber.

How else can you explain having clearly the fastest car on the track. starting P2, going into the first lot of pitstops in P2 and finishing 9th. It was a horrendous day at the races and Webber was shabby

He is looking more like Williams Webber then 2009 RBR Webber at the moment where he had plenty of classy race weekends that had him looking good in the championship up to Hungary last year

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by jab

He's unbelievable. He just needs to stop making mistakes. Then he could be the best in the sport

What mistakes has he made so far this season, other than his "moment" in what still became his pole lap yesterday? If we're talking mistakes, let's mention your boy, if he stopped making them, he could be second best in the sport, behind Vettel

[jab]

We've had 2 races this season. Let's wait and see

[Adam43]

Having an average GP normally involves never crashing. Crashing once generally means that you've had a bad GP. Perspective set. Crashing twice, both times by making a very similar mistake on the brakes, is a terrible GP. Doing it at your home GP is horrendous.

[Knowlesy]

All Mark needs is the car and he'll do the job. It is Red Bulls fault for making such deformable cars. Strengthen that front end (I am thinking a granite grade material) and Mark will do the rest.

[Adam43]

and put ABS on the car.

[Knowlesy]

Driver aids are banned Adam. Be realistic.

[Adam43]

Good point, my mistake.

[Fox89]

Driver aids are banned Adam. Be realistic.

Would having Jackie Stewart talking to you like Ben Kenobi telling you where to use the brake count as a driver aid?

[Adam43]

They let Smedley do it for Massa.

[Knowlesy]

Haha! Was about to say.

Although I think today a reminder that brakes exist rather than advice on braking points was more required.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Adam43

They let Smedley do it for Massa.

I'd love to listen to the full race transmission between those two.

Smedley: Right Phil, when I say go, go.
Smedley: Go!
Smedley: Right, left, straight on for a bit, right....etc
Felipe: I need a wee
Smedley: Go in your suit

[Bononi]

Actually he told him it was not Australia but Turkey.

[HughGJohnson]

Originally Posted by jab

It wasn't horrendous. He went off track twice. Get some perspective. This stuff used to happen all the time in the past

It was poor. It was sloppy. But it was not horrendous. Horrendous makes it sound like he's been incredibly slow and taken out about 5 cars en route to 15th. With the fastest car having started 2nd. But he didn't

No one has said he's a horrendous driver, it was a horrendous performance. Part of the reason it was so horrendous is because he and the car are clearly capable of much more. If you want to talk about how great Webber is, how can you not call it a horrendous performance? You're insulting Webber if you call that anywhere near an average performance.

[Trev Campbell]

I love the way that perceptions get in the way of facts.

FACT: Passing in F1 is virtually impossible

FACT: Webber screwed his quali lap in Bahrain. This put him 6th on the grid. The team then lost him 1-2 spots in the pit stop.

FACT: Webber was extremely close to pole in Melbourne (Although beaten by his team mate)

FACT: Webber went from 2nd to 6th because of a bad call on tyre stops from pitlane.

FACT: Webber overdrove and overdid it, the rest of the race knowing that he had the fastest car and should have been much further up the order.

FACT: People bemoan that there is no passing in F1, at least Webber had a go at it.

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

How else can you explain having clearly the fastest car on the track. starting P2, going into the first lot of pitstops in P2 and finishing 9th. It was a horrendous day at the races and Webber was shabby

You forget to mention where he came out after the pitstop having lost a heap of time running the intermediates too long...

Not to imply that he had a good or even acceptable race though, definitely over-drove the car and had a severe case of red mist. Mind you apart from the few errors it did produce some pretty impressive speed.

I'm sure he will be better next race.

Vettel's luck is bound to change too.

[Kempi]

at least Webber had a go at it

I'd go out on a limp and say Webber did not even want to attempt a pass but simply missed his breaking point watching Hamilton and Alonso. He was so far back, if he really attempted a pass there, it'd truly be a horrendous attempt.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

I love the way that perceptions get in the way of facts.

FACT: Passing in F1 is virtually impossible

FACT: Webber screwed his quali lap in Bahrain. This put him 6th on the grid. The team then lost him 1-2 spots in the pit stop.

FACT: Webber was extremely close to pole in Melbourne (Although beaten by his team mate)

FACT: Webber went from 2nd to 6th because of a bad call on tyre stops from pitlane.

FACT: Webber overdrove and overdid it, the rest of the race knowing that he had the fastest car and should have been much further up the order.

FACT: People bemoan that there is no passing in F1, at least Webber had a go at it.

I can make facts sound damming as well as praising.

FACT: Despite having what is regarded the fastet car on the grid, he is already 31 points off the lead in the WDC.

FACT: He is also behind his teammate in the standings, who has had 2 major mechanical problems in two races.


But seriously, the last race result could have been different if RBR simply copied the other teams by bringing in their drivers earlier. There is no need to go with a super-aggressive stratagy if you are at the front with the fastest car, instead RBR should simply be covering others teams moves and maintaining track position. If they had done this, it is quite likely that we would be sitting here discussing how well MW drove to win his home GP. All the front runners pitted on the same lap apart from Button, why did RBR not simply follow the herd?

[AussieTimmeh]

Originally Posted by steve_r

But seriously, the last race result could have been different if RBR simply copied the other teams by bringing in their drivers earlier. There is no need to go with a super-aggressive stratagy if you are at the front with the fastest car, instead RBR should simply be covering others teams moves and maintaining track position. If they had done this, it is quite likely that we would be sitting here discussing how well MW drove to win his home GP. All the front runners pitted on the same lap apart from Button, why did RBR not simply follow the herd?

So true.

They did give their reasons thinking that the tire was fine, but perhaps could have pitted one car in. All in the past now, but surely teams will bear it in mind for the next race.

[browney]

Surely a large part of it was frustration.

His home GP, Red Bull maek a bad startagy call on one lap, then keep him out to get his team mate in and back out in front, so that by the time Webber pitted, his race and chance of victory had been ruined.

I can (and I'm everyone else who has played sport), can understand what this feels like. When you feel robbed and then overdo it trying to come back.

To me, the story from the AGP about Webber is not just about his mistakes but about how Red Bull managed to again throw away a potential victory. They should have known when Button started producing good sectors that it was time for them to come in (regardless of driver feedback - the drivers wouldn't have had that info).

[steve_r]

Hamilton was always going to have a do or die move on Alonso before the end of the race. Irrespective of his frustration, by being patient Webber could have still finished 4th.
Keeping a cool head is partly what brought Alonso and Button decent results after their dodgy first laps.