RS1800 Gp4 rally car / Help - info needed

[manoliss]

Hi there,

I am new to the forum and am seeking for assistance regarding an mk2 RS1800 gp4 escort that has come to my possession from my late father which I am currently in the process of restoring.

There is no VIN and I have found two tags on it.

The one is welded on the heater plenum and is "SD-214".
It is believed to be a shell prepared by safety devises.

The other one is riveted on the front radiator support and is:

ALTPAJ D
SERVICE S 6213
PRIME

From information of mouth I have is that subject car is a fully prepared safety devices RS1800 (safari spec) that came to Greece in 1980 or 1981 by Mr. G. Meimaridis and was fitted with an AVJ developments BDG engine. The history from then on is known.
I am trying to locate the history of the car before Mr. Meimaridis as I was told that it was probably a works car. When imported in Greece it was white and possibly had a dark blue stripe on the upper part of the sides and fitted with forest alloy arches

Any help will be highly appreciated.

Kind regards,

E. Moschous

[Mike Bell]

Hi manoliss and welcome!

I can't help with the plate welded to the heater bubble, but if Safety Devices prepared the shell it would likely have been supplied by Ford parts department. The other plate is the Ford build / body plate, which suggests that it was a primer coloured service body shell, which makes sense. It is not a chassis / vin number plate.

Will be interesting if anyone can confirm the SD-214 for you. Up to the late 70's the works Ford shells were prepared by Maurice Gomm, but SD did prepare a batch for Ford as well after developing the '14 point' roll cage, which helped the Mk2 Escort hold together. (It was not as strong as the Mk1 due to the spindly roof pillars!)

Best of luck with the car, anyway! Looks good.

Mike

[manoliss]

Dear Mike,

Thanks for your reply and the usefull info provided.
I hope I may find further info as the car is nearing completion and I would love to have it in its original specification as most parts used are the original ones (shell, engine, gearbox, axle, brakes etc..).

Further photos will be posted soon

Best regards,

E. Moschous

[Mike Bell]

No problem!

I don't think Ford sent a team to the Safari Rally after 1977, when they threw everything at it and (from memory) Waldegard won for them. I think only private entries after that, but always possible one of them was in an ex-works car. On occasions a rally car would be sold straight after a rally and not taken home again.

All the info on that is well documented, as is the history of all the works Escorts. If you haven't already got it, you should read 'Works Escorts in Detail" by Graham Robson, which covers every car's facts and figures.

Mike.

[GHOGH]

Portugal was a rough rally. Did Ford use a Safari specification body shell there?

http://www.swapmeetmodels.co.uk/sold...le-p-2627.html
The blue stripe fits.
Many of the 1979 Ford Boreham Works Escort rally cars were used by the David Sutton/ Rothmans Rally Team in 1980 and 1981.


Nothing like asking Safety Devices themselves if the car can be verified as authentic.
http://www.safetydevices.com/

[Mike Bell]

That model depicts POO 504R, which only appeared in the white / blue diagonal colour scheme for one rally. It was in Eaton Yale colours before and went on to be Russell Brooks 'Andrews Heat for Hire' sponsored car. Then sold in UK and continued in private hands.

It is very unlikely there is a 'works' Escort that cannot be traced now. But shells got changed and identities moved, so always possible for another car to have some connection, without being the actual car!

About 10 years ago Safety Devices of old became Safety Devices resurrected, so not really the same company. Not sure if they would have any records going back to the 70s, but no harm in asking.

[GHOGH]

A few ex-works Ford Escorts have ended up in New Zealand. There are plenty of countries between NZ and the UK for ex-works Escorts to get lost in.

http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/02/...ith-the-works/ (body shell swapping for ex-works inspired car)

http://www.vikingmotorsport.co.uk/# (Some of the original Mk2 Escort builders are still hands on with the various classic rally car workshops and are likely to have inspected/ worked on original cars to be able to pick the genuine car)

http://alittlebitsideways.co.nz/sout...ket-list-trip/ (ex-Rothmans 'car' in NZ)

[manoliss]

Thank you all for your help,

It was my impression that all escorts that entered the Acropolis rally were also safari spec as it was really hard, and hence the reason for importing such a spec car in Greek rallying.

Went through Graham Robson's "Works Escorts in Detail" but unfortunately although it has full history of the registrations it doesn't of the actual cars.

As mentioned previously the one in my possession appears to be a safari spec and has a long range bag fuel tank.

Furthermore it has some very peculiar helmet holders (can be seen in the picture attached), the fuse panel was fitted in way of the radiator controls, which meant that the radiator controls were relocated in the center condole under the dash.

I have contacted Safety Devices several times and get a different answer each time. Probably due to the restructuring of the company.

Any way, I attach a few pictures during the restoration progress and hope they may look familiar to someone.

Thanks again for your assistance,

Manolis

[manoliss]

and a few more...

[gypseywilson]

Hi Manolis, there's a Facebook site called "The Golden Years of Rallying Pre 1982" there's a lot of fellas on there with very long memories who may be able to help.

[manoliss]

Thanks alot,

Will try there.

[Greg Cozier]

Can you see any signs of the transmission tunnel being welded in or is it a genuine automatic bodyshell?

[manoliss]

Where should I look? It appears original or it is just well done?

[Angus Theape]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

No problem!]

All the info on that is well documented, as is the history of all the works Escorts. If you haven't already got it, you should read 'Works Escorts in Detail" by Graham Robson, which covers every car's facts and figures.

Mike.

The works escort Andy Dawson got lent for the Welsh rally is a bit short of info.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Angus Theape

The works escort Andy Dawson got lent for the Welsh rally is a bit short of info.

Is that the one that got stolen?
(I have a memory of an old Cars & Car Conversions magazine with a picture of Andy Dawson & his Co-Driver stood next to the car with "STOLEN" written across the top of the page.
His Co-Driver on this occasion was someone called Dave Richards. I wonder what happened to him?)

[manoliss]

Definitely NOT the STOLEN one!!

Mr. Meimaridis, the first owner in Greece came from an upper class family and his cars had always been the best to have; some of which are an escort mk1 gp5 (boreham), the said gp4 rs1800, a couple of gpB lancia 037's, lancia delta intergrale gpA and others.

Furthermore subject rs1800 has entered numerous times the rally Acropolis and rally ELPA, both of word status. Someone should have notices something...

[Angus Theape]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Is that the one that got stolen?
(I have a memory of an old Cars & Car Conversions magazine with a picture of Andy Dawson & his Co-Driver stood next to the car with "STOLEN" written across the top of the page.
His Co-Driver on this occasion was someone called Dave Richards. I wonder what happened to him?)

DR got sacked by Ford for using some local knowledge and getting out of a choked service area quickly by a back route on the RAC and missing a passage control on the official way out, hence the queue. Don't know what happened to him after that.

The Andy Dawson Escort on the Welsh was the one that was stolen and was his works drive reward for winning a rally championship. Last I heard, many years ago, was that not one identifiable part has ever been found. Apparently everything component on the car was number stamped to keep track of the bits for maintenance.

[Fatgadget]

That definitely is a Safety Devices service shell with the auto transmission tunnel.and the welded SD tag on the heater plenum as well as that style turret brackets for the roll cage rear stays.. My SD tag was also in the 200's. I bought mine brand new in 1981 (£900.00!)Those service shells were really meant for re shelling existing cars hence the lack of a VIN number. I did however register my car on an X plate!
At the time the works cars used Gartrac shells,the roll cage was the same 14 point safety devices item but rear turret mounts were slightly different and I don't think Gartrac offered the auto shell option and they were more expensive.£100.00 more I think...a lot of wedge back then!
Good luck in your quest finding its detailed history.Might be an idea tracking down Tony Wilkinson the main man at SD then

[manoliss]

Thanks alot for the info.
Any idea from where to start tracking down Mr Tony Wilkinson?
Also could you please clarify what do you mean by "My SD tag was also in the 200's" as i am a bit lost?

Thanking you in advance,

Manolis

[Fatgadget]

Originally Posted by manoliss

Thanks alot for the info.
Any idea from where to start tracking down Mr Tony Wilkinson?
Also could you please clarify what do you mean by "My SD tag was also in the 200's" as i am a bit lost?

Thanking you in advance,

Manolis

Correction.Brian Wilkinson not Tony.You might also try Gerry Johnston him of DTV fame.He managed SD at some point in the mid/late 80s and would know the whereabouts of Brian should he still be around.
According to your photos,your tag is SD214!....Mine was SD 2xx can't remember the last 2 digits.Every Safety Devices shell had a tag of that format welded on the heater plenum.
Incidentally, was your car ever registered in the UK? If so it's reg number might yield a few more clues.
Here is my car in 1982!

[manoliss]

Unfortunately I do not know if it was ever registered in the UK.
Maybe the DVLA would be able to provide some info given the safety devices "SD-214" number?

[RS8V]

As this is a history thread, perhaps we should ensure total accuracy for the record.
There is no such thing as a Group 4 RS1800.
The original RS1800 in 1975 was a Group2 car, homologated as "evolution" (100 cars) of the original RS1600 (1000 cars). The Group 2 regulations became more restricted for 1976, rendering several works cars uncompetitive, but then 1975 spec Group 2 cars were permitted to continue in International rallies for a further 2 years, but entered in the Group 4 category. The RS1800 was never homologated in Group 4.
A "new" car, the "Escort RS" was homologated in Group 4 in 1977 and used 1978 to the end of that Appendix J in 1981. This was a car to the earlier Group 2 works spec as the basic car, said to have been built in various places, in the then minimum Group 4 quantity of 400. It was not of course ever made on a Ford production line.
If that sounds a bit dodgy, bear in mind the National Governing Body (the RAC - the FIA were not so directly involved in checking quantities then) had just homologated the Chevette HS in Group 4 without a single road car having yet been produced...

No, the DVLA will not recognise the SD number.

[mctaff]

Originally Posted by Angus Theape

DR got sacked by Ford for using some local knowledge and getting out of a choked service area quickly by a back route on the RAC and missing a passage control on the official way out, hence the queue. Don't know what happened to him after that.

The Andy Dawson Escort on the Welsh was the one that was stolen and was his works drive reward for winning a rally championship. Last I heard, many years ago, was that not one identifiable part has ever been found. Apparently everything component on the car was number stamped to keep track of the bits for maintenance.

The stolen Dawson car was a Mk1 I think and didn't it go missing before the Tour of Dean not the Welsh?

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by RS8V

As this is a history thread, perhaps we should ensure total accuracy for the record.
There is no such thing as a Group 4 RS1800.
The original RS1800 in 1975 was a Group2 car, homologated as "evolution" (100 cars) of the original RS1600 (1000 cars). The Group 2 regulations became more restricted for 1976, rendering several works cars uncompetitive, but then 1975 spec Group 2 cars were permitted to continue in International rallies for a further 2 years, but entered in the Group 4 category. The RS1800 was never homologated in Group 4.
A "new" car, the "Escort RS" was homologated in Group 4 in 1977 and used 1978 to the end of that Appendix J in 1981. This was a car to the earlier Group 2 works spec as the basic car, said to have been built in various places, in the then minimum Group 4 quantity of 400. It was not of course ever made on a Ford production line.
If that sounds a bit dodgy, bear in mind the National Governing Body (the RAC - the FIA were not so directly involved in checking quantities then) had just homologated the Chevette HS in Group 4 without a single road car having yet been produced...

No, the DVLA will not recognise the SD number.

I thought every Escort with arches on it was a 'Group 4' Escort? It certainly seems that way from the various internet rally car advertisements!

My Group 4 Escort. I wish it had an auto tunnel

[Greg Cozier]

This also has a Safety Devices cage but it is welded in-situ to the floor and bolted to A and B pillars and across the top of the windshield as required by FIA App. K regs.