CC Racing Developments Group 1 Ford Capri Mk III's

[Peter Mallett]

What is the chassis number of the car in the Stavelot Museum? This is the 1980 car?

[chunterer]

Alex,

Peter's question is a good one, they might know?

Other specific ones would be:

How many different Capris did those guys buy/race? and do they have any info on the specific chassis?

Do they know in which years they bought them?

Do they know whom they sold them onto and when?

Maybe you could put those questions to them and while you're on invite them to join the forum!!!

Another thought!!
Alex any chance you could ask them if they still might be in contact with any of the following:
Dave Cook, (been trying to get him to register on here through various sources unsuccessfully)
Alain Peltier,
Bernard De Dryver,
Alain Semoulin,
These 3 all pedalled Belgian Capris that were likely from the same souce; I.E CC Developments....

[chunterer]

Something cropped up in the Toyota Corolla thread posted by new member Eircamae86.

Amongst a few images of Group A Corollas is a couple of Macau Guia Group A pics. One of them which shows Volvo's leading Starions away from the start in 1985 contains a couple of Mk 3 Capris. One is obscured behind a Corolla One is clearly read and has a 3 word windscreen sun visor. The Gordon Spice Racing cars had the GSR logo displayed on the screens like this so i'm wondering if it's an ex Gordon Spice car that found it's way over there? Altough it's probably just a local guy with an old production saloon that's got an entry!!

How we can find out more about the cars that entered this race and where they came from is anyone's guess though judging by how difficult it has been to develop this thread!!

Here the post with the images - the Macau one are about half way down:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=125

Here's the one where I ask the question above:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=132

I also want to return to something Jepser said in his highlt informative post back last year on the previous page.

Peter Elgaard purchased a Group 1 Capri in 1982/3 after a test run at Zandvoort where the then current owner of the car drove him around the circuit with Peter hanging onto the roll cage!! (Amusing!!)

Jesper mentions that the livery of that car was white over red. I'm wondering if this might have been a Belga car from Gordon Spice or the Martin Brothers? That famous livery was white over red mainly (see Peter Mallett's classic saloon example!) and Zandvoort would have been seen as a convenient meeting place for anyone coming from Belgium (or even UK) to sell a car to someone coming from Denmark.

If only we could see some piccies of the car after Elgaard bought it.

[Deepy-Driver]

Hi - brand new on 10/10ths today. I knew Peter Clark well. To answer a question earlier on, he went into flying after selling CC Automotive Developpments to Jim Tucker - 1960's and 1970's Morgan +4 racer and aeroplane designer. They co-owned the resulting company, and "Firefly Aerial Promotions" Pete was flying a Tucker designed Slingsby T-67 "Firefly" at Shuttleworth in 1996 when he crashed and died.
Peter raced in Minis and Porsches, and also with Dorset Racing at Le Mans etc. When he died, there was still BRDC stickers up in the unit in Kirkbymoorside. The last man at Autotek - as CC was renamed, who was around in the Capri days was one Mike Bilby. Last heard of with Specialist Cars of Malton. Pete shared a European touring Car Championship M3 BMW with Corner, Father and son, and helped son earn his BRDC membership. That was in AROUND 1989/90......
Autotek prepared my "Hot Hatch" XR2 in 1993 - Pete putting hands on it, and testing it, so it was PROBABLY the last Ford prepared by the old CC crew.
Jim Tucker died in 2006, sadly, BUT there is lots of old CC paperwork still with his estate. I have, up to now, been concentrating on his 1960's morgan racing, he still had his +4 race car when he died, but will go ferreting now for CC Capri info. IF this thread is still alive?

[mark babb]

Keep this thread going.. Moved to NZ about 8 yrs ago and desperate for as much info on these CC Capri's. Raced 3 litre capri back in the UK..actually last heard Jim Mcloughan purchased it.. Black and green. I did import John Warrens old 3 litre a few years back and now looking at pictures of CC capri's it had quite a few of the factory parts on it...just hope it wasn't a genuine Car as i recently sold it on... Heaps of Group A bmw's here along with a couple of Cologne Capri's.
Isn't there an ex Gordon Spice Capri for sale in sussex at present ??

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by mark babb

Keep this thread going.. Moved to NZ about 8 yrs ago and desperate for as much info on these CC Capri's. Raced 3 litre capri back in the UK..actually last heard Jim Mcloughan purchased it.. Black and green.

Now belongs to David "Jess" Yates and runs with Masters Touring 70's.

Originally Posted by mark babb

I did import John Warrens old 3 litre a few years back and now looking at pictures of CC capri's it had quite a few of the factory parts on it...just hope it wasn't a genuine Car as i recently sold it on... Heaps of Group A bmw's here along with a couple of Cologne Capri's.

Is it still around?

Originally Posted by mark babb

Isn't there an ex Gordon Spice Capri for sale in sussex at present ??

Yep, its been converted to a Gp 2 machine but comes with the original panels. Current owner (if not sold) is David Thomas.

[KA]

A bit of Capri action I found on Flickr yesterday.... Oulton Park, early 1985

The caption says 'Rouse, Sheene and Woodman', but thinking about it, I reckon the ex-CC Capri is Brian Chatfield, who I'm pretty sure was the last person to field a Capri in the BTCC- a few appearances early in 1985 before moving on to a 635 (the ex-BS/Cheylesmore car)

I think the Capri might even have had a last BTCC outing as late as the British GP support in '86 but won't swear to that without that season's results in front of me...

From memory, wasn't there some trouble over the eligibility of the Chatfield Capri in those first couple of 1985 BTCC rounds? Certainly the fact that he seems to be holding off the Barry Sheene Supra and Rouse's XR4Ti (assuming this is a race and not practice pic!) is surprising....
http://flickr.com/photos/16788879@N0...7611422894664/

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Deepy-Driver

The last man at Autotek - as CC was renamed, who was around in the Capri days was one Mike Bilby. Last heard of with Specialist Cars of Malton.
Jim Tucker died in 2006, sadly, BUT there is lots of old CC paperwork still with his estate. I have, up to now, been concentrating on his 1960's morgan racing, he still had his +4 race car when he died, but will go ferreting now for CC Capri info. IF this thread is still alive?

Deepy, welcome to the forum and for giving us a little bit of insight into what happened to CC Developents in the end. Yes this particular thread is very much alive and in great need of further sources and information about the Group 1 Capri 3's that raced from 1978-82 in the UK and Europe. I suspect we will have better chance of finding info from the UK than European entrants of the cars but who knows!

Maybe Mike Bilby can give us a hand but if you can find that old CC paperwork, I suspect that might give us a whole lot of further scope for developing the thread, some clues as to the original identities and chassis numbers of he cars before they ended up in club racing in many different hands!! It has been difficult tracing cars 'backwards' if you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by KA

A bit of Capri action I found on Flickr yesterday.... Oulton Park, early 1985

The caption says 'Rouse, Sheene and Woodman', but thinking about it, I reckon the ex-CC Capri is Brian Chatfield, who I'm pretty sure was the last person to field a Capri in the BTCC.

From memory, wasn't there some trouble over the eligibility of the Chatfield Capri in those first couple of 1985 BTCC rounds? Certainly the fact that he seems to be holding off the Barry Sheene Supra and Rouse's XR4Ti (assuming this is a race and not practice pic!) is surprising....

Yes I'm sure you are right KA, Chatfield was the last Capri exponent in the Trimoco BTCC in 1985/6. He owned and entered the ex Woodman car (as shown in those Flick images) which has been mentioned before as restored by Ric Wood and now in hands of a private collector (was on show at NEC year before last?) and an ex Gordon Spice or Andy Rouse Gordon Spice Racing car in some of those rounds (suspected to be the car Dave Thomas is currently selling that still has the original red wings that Peter and Mark refer to).

Both of these cars, were definitely CC built cars that originally ran in the Tricentrol series.

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Now belongs to David "Jess" Yates and runs with Masters Touring 70's.

When did Jess buy that Peter?

[Peter Mallett]

Well he was running it at Spa last September so sometime around July/August I think.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Well he was running it at Spa last September so sometime around July/August I think.

Unfortunately I think it had the original engine in it, by the smoke screen it was leaving in its wake

[Peter Mallett]

It broke the gearbox mounting and I suspected that was gearbox oil. It was fixed for the race as I recall.

[free-litre-v6]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Unfortunately I think it had the original engine in it, by the smoke screen it was leaving in its wake

In Fact it was the original 3.4 single cam essex v6 engine built by Marc Tait, but refreshed more recently by Ric Wood, it was white smoke that was billowing out of the rear nearside exhaust which was a blown head gasket, i thought you would of known that peter, you know everything else about capri's!!

[mark babb]

Originally Posted by free-litre-v6

In Fact it was the original 3.4 single cam essex v6 engine built by Marc Tait, but refreshed more recently by Ric Wood, it was white smoke that was billowing out of the rear nearside exhaust which was a blown head gasket, i thought you would of known that peter, you know everything else about capri's!!

Ah, bet you didn't know it was used by Jonathan Palmer as a race school car at Goodwood many years ago, think the race school was run by Derek Wileman and this Black capri was one of three he ran. Crikey i still have the original Number plates and MOT'S here in NZ when it was a road car many moons ago.
Mark

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by free-litre-v6

In Fact it was the original 3.4 single cam essex v6 engine built by Marc Tait, but refreshed more recently by Ric Wood, it was white smoke that was billowing out of the rear nearside exhaust which was a blown head gasket, i thought you would of known that peter, you know everything else about capri's!!

*Checks name.* Thought not. My name is Peter Mallett not Jeremy Walton.

But of course you drove it in 07 didn't you?

Reason I mentioned the Gearbox cross member is that we were trying to find one for David on the Friday. I put 2&2 together but obviously came up with 5. Hey ho.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by mark babb

Ah, bet you didn't know it was used by Jonathan Palmer as a race school car at Goodwood many years ago, think the race school was run by Derek Wileman and this Black capri was one of three he ran. Crikey i still have the original Number plates and MOT'S here in NZ when it was a road car many moons ago.
Mark

Derek was a top roadsaloon pedaller in the mid 80's. So were these 3 cars cars from roadsaloons racing originally rather than pukka ex CC BTCC cars?

Staying off topic a little, Martin Stretton also used (may still do) Capris to teach wealthy businessman how to drive around a circuit before they took their multi million dollar old F1 cars out..... Amusing.

[Peter Mallett]

Doesn't the Yates car have a sunroof? The CC cars were all solid roof shells weren't they?

[chunterer]

Yes I think so Peter, the only 'race' Capris i've ever seen with sunroofs were roadsaloons and possibly the odd prodsaloon.

Those handful of road prep'd CC builds (FC sequence) might be a different story though.

Just going back a post or two, I mentioned that the car Dave Thomas was running (now selling) is likely to be the ex Spice CC car that Chatfield later owned and raced.

I've been racking my brains to remember which round/rounds of the '85 or '86 Trimoco series that Chatfield raced it in. He ran the ex CC Woodman Esso car right at the beginning of 1986, but i'm fairly sure that at one of the mid season Silverstone rounds he ran the red ex Spice car (I think it might even have kept the number 8 entry number that Spice was also entered as in 1982.....)

Wonder if there's any evidence in the race reports from the time or any pics on flickr and sites like that because I definitely haven't got any.

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I've been racking my brains to remember which round/rounds of the '85 or '86 Trimoco series that Chatfield raced it in. He ran the ex CC Woodman Esso car right at the beginning of 1986, but i'm fairly sure that at one of the mid season Silverstone rounds he ran the red ex Spice car (I think it might even have kept the number 8 entry number that Spice was also entered as in 1982.....)

Wonder if there's any evidence in the race reports from the time or any pics on flickr and sites like that because I definitely haven't got any.

He certainly did the first couple of rounds in 1985, but think was in a 635 by the time of the British GP support. I have a vague feeling he used both Capris in 1985.... I'm sure you're right about the number 8 on the car- the ex-CC car ran with this as well, as in the Oulton pic I found on Flickr a few posts back.

http://flickr.com/photos/16788879@N0...7611422894664/

I'm not sure about 86, though I think he turned out for the GP supports. I've got the results for 85 and part of 86, though not immediately to hand, so I'll have a look and get back to this later

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yes I think so Peter, the only 'race' Capris i've ever seen with sunroofs were roadsaloons and possibly the odd prodsaloon.

Those handful of road prep'd CC builds (FC sequence) might be a different story though.

Just going back a post or two, I mentioned that the car Dave Thomas was running (now selling) is likely to be the ex Spice CC car that Chatfield later owned and raced.

I've been racking my brains to remember which round/rounds of the '85 or '86 Trimoco series that Chatfield raced it in. He ran the ex CC Woodman Esso car right at the beginning of 1986, but i'm fairly sure that at one of the mid season Silverstone rounds he ran the red ex Spice car (I think it might even have kept the number 8 entry number that Spice was also entered as in 1982.....)

Wonder if there's any evidence in the race reports from the time or any pics on flickr and sites like that because I definitely haven't got any.

Trouble is by 85/86 they would surely have been in Group A spec with knock-on wheels and a 2.8i engine (3l homologation expired around 1982 ish). This would make sense for the Thomas car which as a Group 2 car runs knock-ons (I think). Yes it does, just checked some pics.

I was thinking about the "Spa" road cars when I posted above. When Jim McLoughlin first had the car I got a good look at it but failed to look for any chassis plates that may connect the car to CC Racing.

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I've been racking my brains to remember which round/rounds of the '85 or '86 Trimoco series that Chatfield raced it in. He ran the ex CC Woodman Esso car right at the beginning of 1986, but i'm fairly sure that at one of the mid season Silverstone rounds he ran the red ex Spice car (I think it might even have kept the number 8 entry number that Spice was also entered as in 1982.....)

Wonder if there's any evidence in the race reports from the time or any pics on flickr and sites like that because I definitely haven't got any.

As far as I can tell, the Trimoco races in 85/86 where the Chatfield Capri(s) appeared are:

1985:

• Round 1- Silverstone. Finished 8th
• Round 2- Oulton- Finished 4th on the road, later disqualified
• Round 3- Thruxton- as far as I can tell from my notes of the results, qualified (17th?) but DNS- I think disqualfied. I've got a vague memory that there's a story about this...

He then disappeared from the series until Round 7 at Donington in July, when the Capris had been replaced by the ex-Cheylesmore 635, which appeared at Round 7, Donington, and the two GP supports (R8, British GP Silverstone and R11, European GP Brands) before a Capri returned for Round 12, Silverstone (DNF- electrical)

The Flickr pic earlier shows the white ex-CC car was used at Oulton and I think I've seen a pic somewhere on the web showing the white car at Silverstone

As I said, I think there's a bit of a story around the two early '85 season disqualifications...
The white Capri was unexpectedly on the pace at Oulton- it qualified and finished 4th overall, and I think even led the race early on...(certainly that pic suggests it might have!) but got DQ'd post-race.

I'd have to dig out the Autosport season review to be sure, but I think after the Oulton disqualification, he then turned up at Thruxton with a different Capri (the red ex-Spice car?), but the scrutineers didn't like that one either and DQ'd him during qualifying...

The 635 didn't appear again with Chatfield in 1986 but a Capri came out again a few times. Not sure of all of them, but my notes include:

• Round 3-Silverstone- Don't know where he finished on the road, but DQ'd, car underweight
• Round 5- Brands GP meeting- 10th
• Round 6- Snetterton- DNF (engine)

There might have been more- I don't have all the results for '86 yet

[free-litre-v6]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

*Checks name.* Thought not. My name is Peter Mallett not Jeremy Walton.

But of course you drove it in 07 didn't you?

Reason I mentioned the Gearbox cross member is that we were trying to find one for David on the Friday. I put 2&2 together but obviously came up with 5. Hey ho.

Quite right Peter, not once but twice, Snetterton (classic thunder) and then the lovely Spa in the masters race, (anyone seen a capri rear disc conversion half-shaft)? it went missing on sunday just before the BSS race at Spa 07.

[Peter Mallett]

I was going to pm you. However I did suggest you collect it last year. Its still waiting for you.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Trouble is by 85/86 they would surely have been in Group A spec with knock-on wheels and a 2.8i engine (3l homologation expired around 1982 ish). This would make sense for the Thomas car which as a Group 2 car runs knock-ons (I think). Yes it does, just checked some pics..

The ex Group 1 cars were 'upgraded' to Group A spec, still running the 3 litre engines, by the likes of Graham Goode ('83) Mike Newman ('83/'84) and Chatfield, although arguably the cars were probably quicker in Group 1 trim than Group A, so it was more like they were 'downgraded'!!

I wonder if this has anything to do with Chatfield's eligibilty issues at the beginning of 1985 that KA refers to? Or maybe he installed a 3.4 engine and the scrutineers fell over laughing or something!!!

A further suggestion regarding the Grp 1 Capri being quicker than the Grp A spec version is that i'm sure I remember seeing in a programme that Gordon Spice set a Thruxton lap record in the '82 Tricentrol series at 1:28s something?

I've got a funny feeling that the Group A cars didn't manage to beat that in 1983, but i'm pretty sure they did 1984 though? Rouse or Soper beat that with their Vitesses and got the time down to 1:26s

Anyone able to check that out as I might have got that a bit wrong!!!

Originally Posted by KA

As far as I can tell, the Trimoco races in 85/86 where the Chatfield Capri(s) appeared are:

1985:[LIST][*]Round 1- Silverstone. Finished 8th
LIST]

Yep definitely the Esso car, was it this round or a later one (June?) where he got off the line like a bullet and managed to lead until Becketts?

Originally Posted by KA

He then disappeared from the series until Round 7 at Donington in July, when the Capris had been replaced by the ex-Cheylesmore 635, which appeared at Round 7, Donington, and the two GP supports (R8, British GP Silverstone and R11, European GP Brands) before a Capri returned for Round 12, Silverstone (DNF- electrical)

I think R12, (the last round?) was when I saw the ex Spice car.....

Originally Posted by KA

The 635 didn't appear again with Chatfield in 1986 but a Capri came out again a few times. Not sure of all of them, but my notes include:

• Round 3-Silverstone- Don't know where he finished on the road, but DQ'd, car underweight
• Round 5- Brands GP meeting- 10th
• Round 6- Snetterton- DNF (engine)

There might have been more- I don't have all the results for '86 yet

Very interesting, again it might have been early '86 where I saw the red one and not '85 (bloody memory) although I couldn't recall seeing any Capris in '86?

Now if he'd given up trying to get the Esso car through scrutineering, he may have just run the red car instead? Running a car underweight, would certainly give it a bit of a leg up against the more modern machinery. Just a thought.

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I wonder if this has anything to do with Chatfield's eligibilty issues at the beginning of 1985 that KA refers to? Or maybe he installed a 3.4 engine and the scrutineers fell over laughing or something!!!....


....Now if he'd given up trying to get the Esso car through scrutineering, he may have just run the red car instead? Running a car underweight, would certainly give it a bit of a leg up against the more modern machinery. Just a thought.

I'll try to dig out the '85 season review from Autosport this weekend- I don't know if it goes into the precise reasons for the early-season DQs, but it does mention them