[Rules] Future Rule Changes

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Whatever is proposed it will be awful.

They could continue with what we have. That would be awful. It will show they don't want to make F1 better. We shall hate it.
They could make the engines simpler and cost effective so all teams can buy them for twopence and it allows more engine manufacturers in. This will result in a boring lack of variety and development. We shall hate it.
They could reintroduce real variety. Number of cylinders, turbos or not, etc... this will lead to the teams with the most cash being able to push ahead, try different things and someone will dominate. Back to the old days? We shall hate it.
Or we just have one engine for all. Fair? We shall hate it.
Or maybe somewhere in between these and we'll have a dilution of the best bits and achieve nothing. We shall hate it.

Who'd write rules to try and make people like them. People want different things and some people just don't like anything anyway.

So in the same way that the next race will be boring, so the next set of rules will be awful. Prepare yourself.

FWIW, I favour more variety even at the expense of a close grid.

Thanks for this depressing and probably correct scenario Adam.

"They could make the engines simpler and cost effective so all teams can buy them for twopence and it allows more engine manufacturers in. This will result in a boring lack of variety and development."

This would be my choice. I want to see racing, and it should be allied with simplified aerodynamics, single plane, narrower front wings for a start.

I really don't like the current black box approach to racing, all we know is that the Mercedes PU is significantly better than anyone else, we do not know why or how other than some speculation.

So what is the point of having expensive and diverse engineering?

Nice way for the manufacturers to milk there racing budget out of the rest of the field through the supply of PUs?


P.S. I believe that Ross Brawn is just going to deliver the next logical step in what we currently have! A really horrible result that I will hate!

[wnut]

Bernie concurs: They haven't done anything

[While the media 'love-in' with Liberty continues, Ecclestone shares the same opinion asForce India's Bob Fernley, and Pitpass.
"They haven't done anything yet as far as I can see. They said they wouldn't talk, they would act. They said I talked before doing anything. I didn't. I got things done quietly. All they do is talk.]

https://www.pitpass.com/60401/Bernie...to-Switzerland

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

Bernie concurs: They haven't done anything

[While the media 'love-in' with Liberty continues, Ecclestone shares the same opinion asForce India's Bob Fernley, and Pitpass.
"They haven't done anything yet as far as I can see. They said they wouldn't talk, they would act. They said I talked before doing anything. I didn't. I got things done quietly. All they do is talk.]

https://www.pitpass.com/60401/Bernie...to-Switzerland

I'm going to give Liberty the benefit of the doubt. Bernie quit at the beginning of the year, with Liberty inheriting what was already in place. Being new to the machinations of F1, they presided over the season, letting it run its course.

The season is nearly over and Liberty will have gained much from what they have observed. I therefore expect Liberty to start acting before the season is out and continue into the off season and preparing for next year.

[S griffin]

Well Bernie would say that, he’s got to protect his own legacy. Imho, Liberty have done alright so far

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by wnut

Bernie concurs: They haven't done anything

[While the media 'love-in' with Liberty continues, Ecclestone shares the same opinion asForce India's Bob Fernley, and Pitpass.
"They haven't done anything yet as far as I can see. They said they wouldn't talk, they would act. They said I talked before doing anything. I didn't. I got things done quietly. All they do is talk.]

https://www.pitpass.com/60401/Bernie...to-Switzerland

That's the difference between Ad-hoc decision making and long term planning; One you can do quickly but often leads to questionable ill-conceived outcomes, the other takes longer but hopefully produces a higher quality result.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

31st October 2017, 2021 engine rules to be revealed.

Well gentlemen, I guess we will see what Liberty Media and Ross Brawn are prepared to do about F1s problems on the 31st October.

Probably push the decision 6 months or a year down the road and keep on going like the head protection canopy/halo implementation.

Hope they don't! Leadership would be good.

[Armco Bender]

Replace F1 cars with F2 cars....problem solved.

[Greem]

I'm just reading the Adam Parr & Ross Brawn book "Total Competition: Lessons in Strategy from Formula One". If I'm reading Ross's words correctly (for those who don't know, the book is written as a transcript of a number of discussions between Parr & Brawn) then he'll be doing what he's always done - observing, gathering info/intelligence, trying to understand the problem *and* those of the 'competition' - before launching anything.

The interesting bit for me here is what 'competition' is when it comes to engines. I don't think it's bikes, or powerboats, or rockets. It's far more likely to be Brawn taking the wide and long view in terms of what's happening socially, politically, and technologically.

It could be that there's little change, but I have a tiny expectation that something radical could be on the cards.

[S griffin]

Well Ross I trust to do the right and get the competition closer and the racing better

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by wnut

Bernie concurs: They haven't done anything

well they did hand Bernie his walking papers and that aint nothing!

and, as far as i can recall, we did also see one of the biggest multi team deals ever transpire this season.

i cant help but think how this would have played out if BE was still in charge.

as it stands currently, my thoughts about the Mclaren/STR/RB/Honda/Renault/driver swap negotiations resulted in a Win-Win for all parties involved.

granted i havent heard/read anything about Liberty taking any direct hand in any of this but maybe the hands off approach was the missing ingredient.

i have a hard time imagining any negotiation that involves BE ending with a Win-Win for all parties. his style lead to one clear winner and many clear losers.

to see otherwise occur this season was a pretty significant change in F1 imo.

[wolfhound]

We are shortly due to see an outline of Liberty's plans for F1 in the future primarily the rules for 2021 and beyond.
It looks like there will be some mechanism to control budgets and that we will get engines similar to now but without the cost of the current hybrid that sounds better.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/132766

[wnut]

Good old nothing again.

https://www.pitpass.com/60602/Propos...rmula-revealed

Drop MGU-H, propose a committee and more bureaucracy.

Same old same old.

Well done, NOT!

[wnut]

Look familiar? Post #2 of this thread 10 th December 2013.

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

A working group will be established to finalise the regulations governing the cost-cap regulations.This group, which will include representatives of the FIA and of the commercial rights holder, as well as F1 team members, will be tasked to finalise these regulations by the end of June 2014.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111798

I would love to be a fly on the wall at these meetings and going on past form I expect this will run and run.........

[Adam43]

Shame their dropping the exhaust regen, I thought it neat how it reduced lag.

Drivers control the energy release? I see the attraction, but I hope they can just use what the collect whenever rather than a limited number or time of push to pass opportunities.

3000 more revs is good.

[Taxi645]

Improvement for the people who want more noise. Lag they can perhaps address in others ways.

I'm interested in the weight implications of the proposed change. Probably somebody will do a technical estimate on one of the sites the comming days. Thank god they skipped 4wd.

If they could get the aero-following problem addressed by 2021 than I would rather just see a gas pedal than tactical deployment. Is more pure to me. Or just make it available on tracks like Hungary and Monaco.

[Mike Harte]

If I've read it correctly, yesterday's meeting was just to flesh out further thoughts on the 2021 PUs, and the meeting was therefore also attended by engine suppliers from outside current F1.

There is another meeting to be held on 7th November to discuss other areas of the 2021 cars, and other regulations.

[Sodemo]

I'd prefer it if the amount of KERS energy was based upon how much harvesting they can do. They could then let the drivers deploy it at their discretion. In other words if a driver can handle a car with a more aggressive regen profile, then they should be "rewarded" for that with potentially higher amounts of KERS energy to deploy. As I understand it, the cars which have the higher harvesting are trickier to drive, mainly on the brakes.

[Moneyseeker]

Acording to Joe Saward, it seems that other proposals are to change the income share allocation to teams making them equal plus benefits from results/wcc standings and interestingly some of the overall income will go to a development budget, not technical but race/event development so F1 can go to the places it wants to race, not just the highest bidder as before.

[Moneyseeker]

Looks like the squabbling has started already...Neither Renault, Mercedes or Ferrari like the proposed engine regs and Ferrari mentioning the possibility of using their veto. Libery Media welcome to F1, getting agreement from this lot 'aint going to be as easy as they thought...and that's before they get to changing the revenue share distribution...

I bet BE has a wry smile, wherever he is now.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Looks like the squabbling has started already...Neither Renault, Mercedes or Ferrari like the proposed engine regs and Ferrari mentioning the possibility of using their veto. Libery Media welcome to F1, getting agreement from this lot 'aint going to be as easy as they thought...and that's before they get to changing the revenue share distribution...

I bet BE has a wry smile, wherever he is now.

I think that Bernie took the blame for a lot of things that were not his fault, the technical regulations pertaining to F1 being one of them!

Liberty's only real hope is to go and do a deal with the FIA and force it on the asylum's inmates, expecting the teams to agree on anything that decreases their slice of the pie is just unrealistic.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Ferrari mentioning the possibility of using their veto.

How does that work? It's my understanding that Ferrari has the veto as part of the current Concorde Agreement which runs through end of 2020. How can they veto regulations that don't come into effect until after their veto rights expire? Granted they would have to have specs agreed upon prior to 2021 season, but I think this is a stretch. I hope Liberty tells Ferrari to kiss their ...

Richard

[F1Guy]

Once again, Ferrari are threatening to quit F1. This is getting boring. No real surprise that they don't like the new changes.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...future-974190/

[Moneyseeker]

We always know that regulation changes are a wrangle and those of us of a certain age will remember Max Mosley's tactic of proposing to ban or change a wide range of things as a batering tactic so he could end up with the changes he really wanted, whilst at the same time the teams went away feeling victorious over the FIA for getting so many changes overturned....

Marchionne says thay Ferrari leaving F1 would be a good thing for Ferrari's shareholders. "It would be totally beneficial to the P&L [profits and losses]," he said. "We would be celebrating here until the cows come home"

Which is interesting as Ferrari is on course for a 1 billion Euro profit this yearand according to Forbes, Ferrari F1 is worth $1.3bn, by far the most valuable team.

The fact that Ferrari don't like the look of the engine regs is one thing, but their mood is unlikely to be improved if (as Joe Sward speculates) Liberty start altering the revenue share, from which Ferrari are the largest benficiary and in 2017 received more money for finishing 3rd in the 2016 WCC than either Mercedes did for winning it and Red Bull for finishing 2nd, due in no small part to the $68M Ferrari receive as a long standing team, the only one to do so.

[S griffin]

Ferrari threatening to quit? Where have I heard this before? Oh yes, several times, usually every 2 or 3 seasons

[bjohnsonsmith]

Instead of the usual threats from Ferrari, maybe they should be less dismissive of some of these changes. They haven't won the WCC or the WDC since Raikkonen in 2008, despite in recent years having Alonso and now Vettel driving for them. They might actually benefit from them.