Chevron B42

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

its craic!!!!
trust a peasant englishman to mis spell gaelic word
or is it part of the Blair dumbing down of Britain?

Hence the English word crack which "is a short witty remark" which derives from the Gaelic word craic.

Oh and for what it is worth Drifty Gordon Brown is now in charge, so you can now blame a Scot!

[driftwood]

before Brown Blair was in charge now where was he from?

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by driftwood

before Brown Blair was in charge now where was he from?

Funnily enough, also Scotland. Educated at Fettes, adopted as baby by Edinburgh family.
You just wouldn't guess it from the carefully cultivated accent and the strategic waving of flags.

Drifty, one side of my family is pure Rathmines Irish, so I do know it's craic [not that anyone in Dublin speaks Gael much...] I was also trying to pun with the well known class A narcotic. Wasted, just wasted... I don't know why I bother!

[allenbrown]

I got it.

[Dan Rear]

Too clever for me this chaps. Now, how come Parsons was on pole in an 'old' B34 up against, better (??), drivers in newer cars??

[Chris Townsend]

My apologies Dan, I couldn't read my own results sheet! Parsons was second fastest, Mallock pole in 0.54.4. He hung on well though:
Mallock 0.28.09.2 race time, Parsons 0.28.17.4, so only 8 seconds in 30 laps, and finished more than 20 seconds up on Lawler's RT4.

Does anyone have anything on the 1981 Irish Atlantic season?
This race is the only one at Mondello for which I have any results. There is no coverage in AS or MN of other races and even Phoenix Park got only a cursory report.
I have bits and pieces for Kirkistown that year, but from the coverage in the UK press you'd think that racing in Ireland had more or less ceased.

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Thats a great performance by him isn't it, even allowing for local knowleddge. Good old B34!! Am I right on the Howlings B29 issue?

[driftwood]

Irish have Gaelic TV channel
lack of racing coverage might be a "politcal" thing considering the times

Is Blair a true blooded Scotsman or an imposter?
If he was a true scot he would sing flower of scotland not god save the queen and wear tartan underpants

Japan B40 cars
looking at my 1978 mag report 1 b40 1 b40/42 and 1 B35/40 are listed to some drivers
So Chris when u get that £3 out and buy me a beer i will let you look at my mags!

[Chris Townsend]

I'd say Blair was an impostor as a human being, let alone as a Scotsman...

Now Drifty, about that three quid. Would the Jap Chevrons have chassis numbers attached?
Would they be B35.76.14 for Kuniomi Nagamatsu [assuming the copy you've got isn't covering the Suzuka 6 March race where Ikuzawa ran it?
B40.9.77 for Ikuzawa
B40.10.77 for Keiji Matsumoto

Should be a real late season B42 for Hasemi with Tomy Racing, chassis number somewhere in the low 20s.

Just want to be sure I'm getting my money's worth...

[driftwood]

sadly mags have no vin plate references for the 78 races the 82 mag does for 822 cars
however i DO know 1 plate # for b42 or b40 as i have the foto! now thats worth 3 lots of 3 squids or 4 pints?

[Chris Townsend]

All very well having a photo of the plate, is it contemporary or period? Is there are driver attached to the car?

[dublinguy]

B42 78 06 isnt the car that Howlings was driving ? yes / no Dan?

Leinster Trophy is (well was.. ) one the big races of the year in Mondello for the Premier class in Ireland, It has gone from F5000 to F Atlantic to FF2000 to F Libre now. Some great cars now running in the F Libre class now:

http://www.formulalibreireland.com

'Craic' whatever spellings dont really come to mind when one mentions Blair or Brown or even Bush but then when you say Clinton well then that means Craic.

Being a genuine Dub I know all about Craic !

[allenbrown]

We were uncertain before whether Brian Robinson's Esprit was based on his B42 or his B48. This advert clears it up:

Autosport 17 Mar 1983 p74: (1) Esprit "professionally built from F2 B48 and powered by a Hart-maintained 420R"; (2) "B42 F2 Chevron/Hart" "immaculately prepared".

[david.seaton]

As I am planning to come back to single seaters I read all this a couple of weeks ago with interest.
B42 78 -14 was mine from 1987 - 1993 as Steve Wilkinson correctly reports, and bore the Chassis plate B48 79 - 04.
I am sure I always entered it as a B42, but prior to purchasing it I had heard it was a B45 - this I think as it ran a 1600 BDM in these days, and a B45 was an Atlantic car.
I have tracked the car down to a dealer in England who have an affiliation with Brian Redman, who I would guess has been instrumental in its' return to the UK.
It now has the correct BMW M12 engine and looks to have had a fantastic rebuild.
I have a real notion to own it again, so called to find out the price. I had made my own guess as to the likely value based on the sum of the parts - chassis, FT200 and M12 motor - and realised it was going to be a lot more than I got for it back then !!
But, as they say, they are having a giraffe - the price is a mere £85k !!!!! I have been in shock for most of the day - I could buy a helluva lot of single seater for half that.
OK, so it is, and was when I had it, a pleasant car, albeit one of the most common and relatively unsuccessful models. Thankfully I don't want a B19 or I guess by this system I would need £250k - or am I totally out of touch - I don't think so !!

[driftwood]

yes yr car was entered as B45 with bda when ray rowan had it it also ran ferrari dino engine in F2 as well as BMW
in the 90`s it had a hart 420R before it was sold to usa where the corrrect BMW was refitted
if you are wanting an historic f2 or a 2 litre car what is yr budget?
send me a pm and i will see what i have in my cupboard

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by david.seaton

As I am planning to come back to single seaters I read all this a couple of weeks ago with interest.
B42 78 -14 was mine from 1987 - 1993 as Steve Wilkinson correctly reports, and bore the Chassis plate B48 79 - 04.
I am sure I always entered it as a B42, but prior to purchasing it I had heard it was a B45 - this I think as it ran a 1600 BDM in these days, and a B45 was an Atlantic car.

David, did you buy it from Stuart Ridge? If so was his engine of choice the BDM?

All the best,

Steve

[david.seaton]

Hi Steve,
I must speak later about MP43, MP58, MP62's etc etc, but meantime, the Chevron.
I bought it in 1987 from Stuart Ridge, collecting it at the end of the last Shelsley of the season. It had a 1600 BDM at that point - short stroke, F1 cams, Lucas Mech Inj. It was painted blue and white with "Lough Pool Inn" down the sides. I paid £7250 including trailer and spares. It was sold because Stuart and his father (Norman) had discovered two Maurer chassis and M12 engines, and saw the investment value in them. (I guess if my old Chevron is now £85k, a Maurer will be well over £100 k !!!) As far as I was aware this was the same engine used by Ray Rowan prior to him selling the car to Stuart.
I ran it untouched for the first part of the following season and ran into engine difficulties (head cracked and beyond further repair). In the end I found a new BDA head casting and sent it to Langford and Peck to take out to "as big as possible". This they duly did at a cost of some £2200, which was a fortune then, especially relative to the value of the car.
All the time I had the car it ran with the BDM, built locally by Doug Thomson. With the F1 cams it was not ideal on Hillclimbs as it had absolutely nothing below 7500 rpm, but above that it was brilliant, probably in part due to the head (and very much to do with Dougs' ability) , and despite the enormous revs used it was very reliable. At the time it was considered by most to be the crispest and highest revving BD motor in use.
When I traded it to John Garnett for the Pilbeam MP53H , I was allowed £14000 as a trade in - As they say -"I thought I'd won a watch" !!
He passed it to Carl Amos whose first job was to remove the F1 cams as he thought it undriveable. It never sounded or went properly after that.
Then I lost touch with it until relatively recently.
I am still staggered as it was probably one of the least successful B42's of its time as neither Agostini nor Ken Brill did any good whatsoever with it. Arguably Ray, Stuart and myself were the only people to get any worthwhile results with this car, and then all in Speed Events.
Perhaps the restorers judgement can be influenced by the romance of a famous name rather than the actual abysmal reality of the car at the time !
My notion on 2 litre cars was mainly based around having my old car back, although perhaps I should consider this further as the Unlimited class in Hillclimbs nowadays looks absolutely terrifying, and I intend to return this year with some car.
Thank you, driftwood, for your suggestion - I will PM you tomorrow once I am back at work with access to my email.

[Chris Townsend]

In period B42-14 ran a whole variety of engines [assuming that 'period' doesn't just refer to the first year of use...]
Brill ran it with a BDG [IIRC] tho he was going so slowly it might have been a Ford Kent in need of a rebuild...
Fisher might have run it with some variety of 1.6 BD engine [BDD or BDM I guess] rather than the 2.0, which may have been a bit much.

However, surely it makes sense to run any engine with which the car could reasonably have been fitted in period. Very few [two?] B42s were actually fitted with BMW M12s. Most ran Hart 420Rs, two had Ferrari engines and Millen's 42-01 [after Patrese ran it with a BMW in the Japanese GP] ran its entire period life as an Atlantic with a BDM [and that car was in any case probably a rebuild based on B40-02...]

Given that many B42s had a period life in Atlantic/Pacific spec wouldn't it be quite in order to run with a BDD/BDM or even [assuming you could get them] a Nissan LZ14 or Toyota 2T-G [SEA races including Macau]?

Chris

[driftwood]

1 running in period - im sure allen simon H etc will say the "period" days of the F2 c/ship that model ran form new to say 3 years after model launch
Its NOT the years it ran outside the pukka c/ship ie in aurora etc even to the degree of a certain chassis that could have been sold new in those days but for arguments sake went hillclimbing in outer mongolia with a lada turbo V16 engine
you can state the particular chassis can run that motor but not the other 15 cars built

2 selling Chevron in 1987 to buy Maurer MM80 was just a fashion thing not an investment back then as the hysterical racing was low level it would be like selling yr mk6 VW golf thats 5 yrs old to buy the mk7 version thats 3 yrs old
today the hysterical racing is all about being pre 1980 hence why the 74-78 cars are all at high values ( common capitalist supply n demand strategy) over the later post 1980 GE cars
I LOVE THE LATER CARS- HOWEVER i know a certain "gentleman" who would not p--s on 1 if it caught fire but would throw his wife and kids onto the early car to extinguish the flames

[allenbrown]

I disagree with you of course. Any International is good enough.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by david.seaton

B42 78 -14 was mine from 1987 - 1993 as Steve Wilkinson correctly reports, and bore the Chassis plate B48 79 - 04.

A photo of David's B42 taken at Doune 1988.

[driftwood]

International what?
f2 race at Thruxton or International hillclimb race in jamaica?
Was aurora International?

you cant have a B48 racing with b42 bodywork as it did NOT race in the f2 c/ship race these cars ran in club events but a motor used in in period can be fitted to any chevron B42 chassis not the exact chassis numbered car

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by driftwood

International what?
f2 race at Thruxton or International hillclimb race in jamaica?
Was aurora International?

you cant have a B48 racing with b42 bodywork as it did NOT race in the f2 c/ship race these cars ran in club events

But the prototype [which became the Robinson car] ran at Macau with B42 bodywork...so as long as you fit a BDM you should be alright!

I think AFX was international but not the ShellSport series. I think you had to have International B or C license to do Aurora, though don't quite know where Ken Brill got one of those

Chris

[david.seaton]

Steve,
Thanks for the photo - you don't by any chance have any from the first Jim Thomson Memorial meeting at Harewood, when the car was at it's best !!?
That was the meeting when Doug Thomson also drove it, having totally rebuilt it, - he hadn't driven in competition for 15 years, nor had driven the car until the first practise run, but managed to win the class and proved why he was previously Scottish Hillclimb Champion. How embarrassing to be beaten with your own car, by a man in his white Castrol overalls from 1973 !!
Regards
D

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by david.seaton

Steve,
Thanks for the photo - you don't by any chance have any from the first Jim Thomson Memorial meeting at Harewood, when the car was at it's best !!?
That was the meeting when Doug Thomson also drove it, having totally rebuilt it, - he hadn't driven in competition for 15 years, nor had driven the car until the first practise run, but managed to win the class and proved why he was previously Scottish Hillclimb Champion. How embarrassing to be beaten with your own car, by a man in his white Castrol overalls from 1973 !!
Regards
D

David, any idea of the exact date? I tend not to keep photos by meeting titles but by date/venue.

All the best,

Steve