Why GREED will kill off V8SC

[redesp]

2 notes first up.

1. this is a rant.. sarcasm inferred and applied.
2. not a foxtel bash.

Had a great day at sandown yesterday overshadowed by the money grubbing greed of either V8SC or sandown or both.

Now the topic of V8SC being sold to foxtel has been debated to death on this (and many other forums)
I still dont think that the governing body undestands that at the end of the day its the punthers (like me) who actually GO TO THE TRACK are the ones who support the teams, buy the merchandise and continue to support the sponsors.
The reality is that without supporters the sponsorship $$'s will ultimately fade away.
But being a V8SC fan i still like to watch every round. So like so manyu others I chose to get Foxtel. The trade off for me financially was that the $ I spend from foxtel came directly from my AFL membership. So I no longer am a member of my AFL team. But I do have foxtel so I can watch all the games anyway because just like V8SC this is the only avenue that I can afford.
Keeping with the AFL theme, having foxtel (and no membership) means I have not been to one game this year. I know that I am just one person (3 including the kids) and that in the grand scheme of things it wont impact the AFL or crowd numbers BUT the long term effect is that my kids are less likely to participate in supporting thier team as a result.

IMO The same will happen to V8SC. No punters through the gate = less support for teams = less interest in the sport = less$$ next time the TV rights come up = less sponsors = nor more V8SC.

To compound the issue of foxtel (aka sitting at home) v's going to the track, imagine my surprise (read disgust) at being slugged almost $300 (read 6 months foxtel subscription) for 2 adults with a 3 day pass for sandown.
THEN I get to pay an extra $50 for the "luxury" of taking my own car trackside. YES $50 TO SIT IN MY OWN CAR NEXT TO THE TRACK.
For me Friday was just a meet and greet day. An opportunity to park in my fav spot at turn 13 then tour the pits, check out the merchandise, say hi to some friendly faces in the pits and buy some well cooked, overpriced food.

On the way back into the car. For those who don't know sandown you cant walk all the way around the outside of the track because of the creek in the middle. And the excellent organisation of facilities and security means an extra 500m walk around gates just to go 10m as the "crow flies"
Mind you, the number of punters who walk all the way up to turn 13 only to find they CAN'T go the final 10m was amazing. The look of surprise, embarasment and ultimately rage when they find that they have to go all the way back to the main gate is always amusing. In saying that we saw the best part of a few hundred people do it. obviously newbies to the track (doesn't that mean that they are first timers and new to the sport and kind-of opposite of this rant??) Anyhow.. you'd think the brains trust would have kindly erected a sign by now.. but I've been going to sandown for the past 20 odd years and it hasn't changed yet.
Now.. back to the car. there's a big sign that says "NO GAS BBQ'S" along with the no glass and no booze signs. I can live with no glass and no booze because I have figured out how to hide that stuff... but NO GAS BBQ.. C'MON.
Now I have to pay an extra $50 to sit in my own car without the luxury of cooking bacon and eggs breakfast Sunday morning or having a BBQ lunch.
NO GAS BBQ... Challenge accepted.

When we arrive at the gate on Sunday morning we pass the NO GAS BBQ Sign, another that says approved gas bottles only and then a second NO GAS BBQs sigh. and there is, as expected a car search.
Mr Security asks if i have any glass, alcohol, knives (i Know Knives)etc.
I show him the back of the car and open the esky and explain that under all the snags, bacon and other stuff it is full of cans of coke. to which he replies. "you can't bring coke in, because it is in cans" WTF dont they sell cans at the overpriced coke stall along with americas finest bourbon wood-stock, and the thirst crushing Coopers ale?
He points at the BBQ and asks "what's that? "
"I'ts my tool box" is my response, pointing to the tool box next to the GAS BBQ. I slide the toolbox out and open it.. nothing but tools.
He opens the back door and I tell him there's just chairs, food and stuff for lunch.. I tell him i have a steak knife and a bottle of olive oil but he graciously lets it slide

Finally parked I set up my BBQ and put the kettle on for a coffee. Noticing that there are at least 4 other bigger BBQ's in the crowd around me.. but still paranoid that I will be caught.
20 minutes later a 4WD Polaris pulls up. The young bloke gets out and dives straight towards the BBQ. Man I know I'm burnt now.
NOPE.. All he wants to do is make sure the BBQ and the bottle comply to Aus Standards. and "it's OK to bring in a BBQ just got to have it checked"

Again WTF is going on? does anyone know what's going on?

So if you've read this rant all the way to this point here is the summary.

Combining the skyrocketing cost to get in, the exorbitant parking fee, cost of food and drink and the constant battle between common sense and what the security guys have just been "told to do" maybe it is just easier to sit at home and watch it on Foxtel.. at least i don't have to listen to Matthew White any more
An that is why Greed will kill off V8SC

[Denosaur]

Dave, I know you said it's a rant, but a few points I would like to make, or possibly even add....

Originally Posted by redesp

The reality is that without supporters the sponsorship $$'s will ultimately fade away.

Lately its been hard to attract sponsors due to financial pressures some companies are faced with.

Originally Posted by redesp

But being a V8SC fan i still like to watch every round. So like so manyu others I chose to get Foxtel. The trade off for me financially was that the $ I spend from foxtel came directly from my AFL membership. So I no longer am a member of my AFL team. But I do have foxtel so I can watch all the games anyway because just like V8SC this is the only avenue that I can afford.
Keeping with the AFL theme, having foxtel (and no membership) means I have not been to one game this year. I know that I am just one person (3 including the kids) and that in the grand scheme of things it wont impact the AFL or crowd numbers BUT the long term effect is that my kids are less likely to participate in supporting thier team as a result.

I see the AFL as the biggest threat to the sport, with many sponsors choosing to go to them, because of the TV exposure over V8's. Hence the driver behind going to Foxtel, as it equals more TV time for the sponsors, thou a reduce audience.

Originally Posted by redesp

IMO The same will happen to V8SC. No punters through the gate = less support for teams = less interest in the sport = less$$ next time the TV rights come up = less sponsors = nor more V8SC.

I agree, less through the gate = less support for teams. I don't agree with less $$ next time the TV comes up. Live TV is king as far as sponsors and sports are concerned. The money will come in.

Originally Posted by redesp

Combining the skyrocketing cost to get in, the exorbitant parking fee, cost of food and drink and the constant battle between common sense and what the security guys have just been "told to do" maybe it is just easier to sit at home and watch it on Foxtel.. at least i don't have to listen to Matthew White any more
An that is why Greed will kill off V8SC

The planets aligned and I managed to get my hands on some tickets for the weekend. Whilst I didn't mind paying for some food and other bits whilst there, it would have been another story if I had handed over my hard earned to get through the gate. I'm not sure what the deal is with Sandown, but they need to take a leaf out the MCG and Etihad book and reduce the pricing. Since I had my young two there, I didn't particularly enjoy seeing the amount of people drinking and smoking around the "Disney Zone" they set up down there, along with the other stuff. FFS Sandown/V8 use your heads, kids/family zone = no smoking or drinking.

[bortall]

Just to note: Sandown hires the venue to V8SC (as the promoter) and has nothing more to do with it, you would find the same bone headed rules & regs at PI (also V8SC promoted).

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by bortall

Just to note: Sandown hires the venue to V8SC (as the promoter) and has nothing more to do with it, you would find the same bone headed rules & regs at PI (also V8SC promoted).

Im pretty confident they provide man power as part of the agreement.

A few years back i sat in a crowd at winton watching some bloke who brings his portable BBQ out once a years have flames from places flames should not be, It was extremely dangerous for the innocent people near by. So i have no issues with them having people come around and check. but they rules should also be clear

As i mentioned in the main thread. Extra $30 for grandstand, when it ahd been free in the past is a massive jump, I paid it because its a great place to sit, But if i had have had my kids there it was a massive extra cost.

[redesp]

Originally Posted by peckstar

A few years back i sat in a crowd at winton watching some bloke who brings his portable BBQ out once a years have flames from places flames should not be, It was extremely dangerous for the innocent people near by. So i have no issues with them having people come around and check. but they rules should also be clear

.

I agree.. probably didn't make it clear in my post.

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by redesp

20 minutes later a 4WD Polaris pulls up. The young bloke gets out and dives straight towards the BBQ. Man I know I'm burnt now.
NOPE.. All he wants to do is make sure the BBQ and the bottle comply to Aus Standards. and "it's OK to bring in a BBQ just got to have it checked"

Lots of truth there, but I thought I would pull this bit out. I've done that job. Best way to spectate at a v8 round that I have found. (and I've done a few ways)

[DV_08]

I paid the extra $30 for the grandstand, wasn't really happy about it but I like have the shade and the viewing it provides. Given this is something that has been part of the ga ticket price previously, I think its pretty poor from V8Supercars. It certainly won't help future crowd numbers at Sandown.

[Average Punter]

How about $92 for Sunday at Mt Panorama?

So you can pay $6.50 for a mid-strength beer and sit on the grass.

(At least you don't have to get there till 10:55)






We'll camp thanks...

[billybanana]

In 2003 and 2004 me & the missus went to every round. Cost me a small fortune but we wanted to do it and follow the sport we loved.

Fast forward to today I'd be lucky to go to a single round per season......now I have Foxtel and support the sport by plonking my butt on the couch and watching the excellent tv coverage. Yes I still buy the odd bit of merchandise too.

I'm no less passionate than I was earlier in my life so I'm not sure I totally agree with your assertion that No punters through the gate = less support for teams = less interest in the sport = less$$ next time the TV rights come up = less sponsors = nor more V8SC.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by billybanana

I'm no less passionate than I was earlier in my life so I'm not sure I totally agree with your assertion that No punters through the gate = less support for teams = less interest in the sport = less$$ next time the TV rights come up = less sponsors = nor more V8SC.

Do you have kids, and if so, are they as 'into' V8 Supercars as you?

[billybanana]

A girl with no interest in cars full stop, racing or otherwise, so you can't draw any conclusions from that.

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by billybanana

In 2003 and 2004 me & the missus went to every round. Cost me a small fortune but we wanted to do it and follow the sport we loved.

Fast forward to today I'd be lucky to go to a single round per season......now I have Foxtel and support the sport by plonking my butt on the couch and watching the excellent tv coverage. Yes I still buy the odd bit of merchandise too.

I'm no less passionate than I was earlier in my life so I'm not sure I totally agree with your assertion that No punters through the gate = less support for teams = less interest in the sport = less$$ next time the TV rights come up = less sponsors = nor more V8SC.

The less support bit comes from punters like yourself not going to as many ( or any ) events anymore because of the exorbitant cost and knuckle-dragging organisation, so you have far less opportunities to buy merchandise, which lets face it, most people wouldn't buy if there wasn't a stand right there with some hot ladies flogging shirts and hats etc. It's also quite often an impulse buy, and relies on the emotion of the moment ( of being at the event ). A week and a half after you watched your favourite driver / team win a race on the tele, are you going to charge down to Kmart or whichever shop has a handful of odd sized merchandise and buy it?? Not really.

And as old mate said, you not going to the track and dragging the kids along, to them now it's just Dad watching cars go round in circles on the tele, so there is no experience for them, no smell of hot brakes and burnt tyres, etc. Not having a go, because I wouldn't pay their highway robbery prices either, but that's where the less interest in the sport comes from.

I got he bug cos my Dad took me to the track a lot "back in the good old days", but times have changed a lot now, it's all commercially driven and all about the $$$$$$$$$$$.

[fomoco]

I Dont think greed will kill them, but they will start targeting a different demographic. The ute series is already doing that, you only have to see the younger gen are buying , luxes, nisans, mitsis etc, not falc, commy utes like days of old.
Agree things have changed, more rules and regs, shite, i remember going into the G witha loaded esky of fosters, for footy and boxing day tests, cant do that now.
They would like to promote it is a day for all the family, not just the lads, so its something we will have adapt to, or get fox and stay at home.

or else, win a big lotto, build your own track, and become the promoter, because anywhere V8SC's or Govt funding, will meaN WHOS, etc etc , even though its your track, you will still have to put in measures to ensure public safety.
it just the way it is

[MatCoch]

Some interesting points made.

Speaking specifically of Sandown over the weekend I'm told there was a crowd of 60,000 people there. Having been at Eastern Creek a couple of weeks earlier I would confidently say that's about 40,000 more than turned up to that event.

That said, Eastern Creek has a reputation for heavy-handed security. Last season in the walk from the car park into the circuit I was asked for my pass five times, though thankfully it was rather simpler this time around.

With regards punters going to the circuit versus watching on television, both are important but for different reasons. Punters attending the races effectively pay for the race itself. As someone mentioned earlier V8SC essentially rents the venue from Melbourne Racing Club and covers those costs through ticket sales and the like. The sport earns far more through the television deal, so on balance its focus will always be skewed in favour of that.

As for the argument that not attending live motorsport will mean there are no new fans, I'd disagree with that. While my father is a motorsport fan the only event I ever went to as a kid was the Grand Prix. I can remember heading out to Mallala only twice as a kid, both times with my uncle. I have grown and remain passionate about the sport while my cousins funnily enough have no interest in motor racing at all.

[dsg]

My father was a huge Australian football fan but never showed even a passing interest in motor racing and never took me to any races. I love the AFL but from my early primary school days I liked watching motor racing and watched Bathurst, the ATTC and when I could Formula 1 at every opportunity.

When I was older I attended many events here and overseas and even competed in a few. I stopped going mainly because of the crowd the races attracted during its so called heyday. Now I am older I do most of my viewing on Foxtel.

Taking children to the races may get them interested in the sport but lets not discount all the new fans attracted to the sport by the coverage it receives on television. As billybanana said:

Originally Posted by billybanana

I'm not sure I totally agree with your assertion that No punters through the gate = less support for teams = less interest in the sport...etc.

[MattV]

Is merchandise still as bigger thing as it was in the mid to late 90's early 2000's?

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by dsg

My father was a huge Australian football fan but never showed even a passing interest in motor racing and never took me to any races. I love the AFL but from my early primary school days I liked watching motor racing and watched Bathurst, the ATTC and when I could Formula 1 at every opportunity.

When I was older I attended many events here and overseas and even competed in a few. I stopped going mainly because of the crowd the races attracted during its so called heyday. Now I am older I do most of my viewing on Foxtel.

Taking children to the races may get them interested in the sport but lets not discount all the new fans attracted to the sport by the coverage it receives on television. As billybanana said:

Agreed, I first got into it from having Bob Stevens as a neighbour, working on the Camaros in his big shed, and the sound of Amaroo wafting over the hill. Only went to Amaroo about 10 times, and never went anywhere else until I was a young adult. No influence from my parents whatsoever (More of a case of "Dad can we go to Amaroo?" - "No!")

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by MattV

Is merchandise still as bigger thing as it was in the mid to late 90's early 2000's?

I think it is, but online sales are big now. thus less presence at the track

Still reckon there will be some nice "limited edition" bathurst stuff available

[Mixer]

Something about the interest of the youth (and I'm going to sound old...)

I have a 14 yo step daughter and 11 yo step son, and I don't see them interested in _anything_ apart from the mobile phone and xbox respectively.

Basically as far as the daughter goes, if you're not Kanye West vomiting iTunes cards, she is just not interested... In anything.

Took the young bloke to footy (meh), took him gokarting (meh), but he did like the Big Bash Cricket - which I think is designed for the attention span challenged.

My interest in motor racing didn't really come from my parents either, I don't really remember exactly but I do know I used to go take over the spare room from at least 1981, which would make me 8!

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Something about the interest of the youth (and I'm going to sound old...)


My interest in motor racing didn't really come from my parents either, I don't really remember exactly but I do know I used to go take over the spare room from at least 1981, which would make me 8!

I went to Sandown on the weekend with my father, but my kids dropped out late as they preferred go to the AFL final and see their team

That being said , a little something for you in the Bathurst 1000 Trip thread tomorrow

[Trev Campbell]

I'd have to say that I'm almost the opposite of some of the guys here. V8's move to foxtel has had me watching (AFL) and attending more footy (Local, Not AFL as they have the same rip off policies V8SC have) than I have in years.

I love the V8's but can't financially justify paying for a product I have always been able to watch for free. This doesn't just apply to the V8's, I watch the F1's when they are free to air. But because I don't have access to it all the time my interest in V8's and motorsport in general has dropped of dramatically this year. Having spoken to mates who are in the same boat, their interest has also dropped to the point of checking the results online or elseware and thats about it. This will be V8's and motorsports issue going forward. How do you attract or keep supporters and fans when they can't access your product.

I went to Sandown on the weekend. GA with the wife. I saw all the pay $30 for a grandstand upgrade signs and ads. Be we just walked into the grandstand with our GA tickets.

The walk around to turn 13 was stupid. Why they just can't let punters exit out of the gates at the back of the pits is just pure stupidity. I got caught with that one as every other year I'd been able to do it.

[billybanana]

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

I love the V8's but can't financially justify paying for a product I have always been able to watch for free.

This is the same statement I've read countless thousands of times this year and it's the one that irks me the most. People have such a sense of entitlement now.

I used to drive on many freeways for free. Now it costs me money with tolls everywhere. Is there an alternative route ? Yes there is but it takes longer and is no where as straightforward. You want a better product you have to pay for it. Quite simple really.

Whatever happened to "I'll contribute financially to support the sport I love ?" Sorry but the sport gains nothing from freeloaders. I'm over it.

[numbnuts]

hi everyone , i was a regular attendee at v8 events until around 2010 . the stupid prices and aggressive security put us off .
at barbagallo they install corporate tents across most of the public viewing areas spoiling the show for us uncorporates .
lately we attend local low key motorsport and get some variety as well as value for money.
i find it very greedy when V8SC only award a grand to the pole sitter (on a ten foot cheque ! ) when they collect maybe ten times that amount in fines .

[one five five]

Originally Posted by billybanana

Whatever happened to "I'll contribute financially to support the sport I love ?" Sorry but the sport gains nothing from freeloaders. I'm over it.

Since when has paying to watch it on TV been the only medium to support the sport we love?

Surely attending events (as Trev says he did last weekend in the post you referenced) and buying team and category merchandise is contributing finacially to the sport??

V8s knifed their own backs by taking content away from FTA to put on PayTV, they have to live with the consequences from the punters good or bad....

I personally am over the attitude that people who don't have Foxtel are considered to want everything for free, have self-entitlement or aren't supporting motorsport...

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by billybanana

This is the same statement I've read countless thousands of times this year and it's the one that irks me the most. People have such a sense of entitlement now.

I used to drive on many freeways for free. Now it costs me money with tolls everywhere. Is there an alternative route ? Yes there is but it takes longer and is no where as straightforward. You want a better product you have to pay for it. Quite simple really.

Whatever happened to "I'll contribute financially to support the sport I love ?" Sorry but the sport gains nothing from freeloaders. I'm over it.

You may be over it, but it looks like V8SC's fanbase may be well and truly over them too...... going by their abysmal TV ratings.
Your point about having a better product may work for the diehard fans who can afford and are willing to pay for Foxtel, but the rest, and the casual mass audience aren't getting conned by that line.