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Old 4 Dec 2003, 23:12 (Ref:804220)   #1
swift
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IndyAtlantic Memories 1976

Having read all the threads regarding Formula Atlantic over the past weeks since I've joined, and had my appetite whetted, I've decided it's about time I started one of my own!

What abiding/special memories do you have about that long, hot summer of '76?

One I'll start you off with:

At the Croft round, somebody (possibly Peter Wardle?) had arranged for all the Atlantic cars to on display I think in Darlington town centre. It was then decided to run the cars through the streets in convoy. This train of cars was to be escorted my police motor cycle outriders. Now, because the route went through 2 different police counties, there had to be a point where one force handed over to the other.

Well, you can probably guess what happened next! Oh, by the way, it was raining as well just to add a bit of spice. As my father Ken was the only one on slicks, it was decided he should run at the back!

As the cavalcade got going, the pace began to increase and the outriders began to fall back. Ken was doing all he could to keep up! Soon enough, they began to encounter traffic. Did this slow them down? Not b----y likely!!!No, they just overtook them instead! What the local motorists driving around must have thought when a field of Atlantics came blatting past diving in and out of the line of traffic.........

Great!

Anymore anyone?
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Old 5 Dec 2003, 03:42 (Ref:804353)   #2
tony griffiths
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Absolutely wonderful weekend ..... was involved with a car that was sponsored by Radio Teesside {?} ..... dont think it was Peter Wardle but that rogue who triend to run the two ex old McLaren F2 cars. And rogue is being polite - he was later removed by some investors in a would be restaurant !
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Old 5 Dec 2003, 04:22 (Ref:804366)   #3
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Yes The McLaren M21's. (as in Jody Scheckter winning F2 at Crystal Palace) Does anyone know what happened to them and how many were built.
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Old 5 Dec 2003, 09:42 (Ref:804532)   #4
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Only McLaren M21 to appear in Indylantic was race #194 Steve Prior- Mclaren-Nicholson M21 colour blue.finished 11th at Brands,4 April.7th at Croft.Also seen at Brands 9 May & 6 June.
'swift' is your dad Ken Bailey? If so he drove an orange Chevron-Nicholson B29 #12 to 110th at Brands 4 Apr,retired on 9 may ,? 6 Jun. I only went to the Brands rounds so don't have a complete list of runners for the other circuits.I would have loved to have been in Darlington for that ,never heard that story before.
As Ken has experience of dealing with Mr Wardle he may be interested in the thread,in 'other single seaters' forum I think, re. the'Challenge Inititive' which this gentleman is trying to set up on a simlar basis to Indylantic

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Old 5 Dec 2003, 10:10 (Ref:804557)   #5
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Teratonga.
I was under the impression only 1 was built , Schecker's/ Impact Garages car , but recently , and I can't remember if it was a reasonably new magazine or while going through old Autosports , that there seemed to be mention of 2 off.
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Old 5 Dec 2003, 13:05 (Ref:804711)   #6
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Ah, memories of Formula Atlantic. I was at the '76 Croft meeting too. I'd seen quite a bit of FA over previous seasons and it had always provided fantastic racing. Indylantic didn't. I'm not sure what prompted the change in format of the series - greed, I suspect. Chief culprit - P. Wardle, I think (I'd better watch what I say in case someone takes out a libel action against me). It goes to prove that you don't find a racing series that appeals to the public by dressing it up with silly gimmicks like Indy-style qualifying (which was pretty tedious to watch). And with no disrespect to some of the good drivers that competed in 1976, they were not of the same calibre as the likes of Jim Crawford and Tony Brise, who had driven in Atlantic in previuos years and were clearly destined for the big time. Indylantic consisted of just a few quality drivers such as Cyd Williams, and those who, frankly, I had never heard of and who should have been doing Libre races in local clubbies. In '76, the drivers who were going places were doing F3, which was revitalised after a couple of years in the doldrums. A sad end to a great formula. RIP.
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Old 5 Dec 2003, 21:39 (Ref:805165)   #7
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Steve Prior had 2 of the Mclarens - one which he "drove" and the second was I think Tony Trimmer - remember them at Mallory, neither would run properly - the "new" airboxes didnt have a breather hole for the Webers !
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Old 6 Dec 2003, 00:35 (Ref:805280)   #8
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Rob29: you're quite correct, my father is Ken Bailey and yes he did compete in the orange B29. His retirement from the Brands meeting in the May was due to heat exhaustion. As regards getting dad to log onto the thread regarding Peter Wardle, doubtful I'm afraid. Last time we spoke about Mr Wardle, dad seemed to recall that he still owed him some money!!!!!!

I agree with davemorganfan, the earlier days of Atlantic, as far as I can remember were a real hot bed of talent:Jim Crawford (a driver my dad always used to say that if he wasn't on full opposite lock he would complain of understeer!), Colin Vandervell, John Nicholson, Geoff Friswell, Tom Pryce, Tony Brise, Steve Choulorton, Richard Scott, Cyd Williams to name but a few.

It was a great pity that this formula faded away: they were great cars: very fast and sounded glorious! Happy memories.
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Old 6 Dec 2003, 06:36 (Ref:805377)   #9
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I was under the impression that some had been built for the US Atlantic by Trojan (6?)but I could be wrong. At the time it seemed to come from some records of McLaren Model numbers. I was surprised at the time because i thought the M21 was a one off produced for Jody's year in F2. (Some year-F2,F5000, F1)
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Old 8 Dec 2003, 13:24 (Ref:806624)   #10
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I suspect FAt had come to the end of its natural life, for that period at least, in Britain by the end of 75. F3 which had more clout politically, and with organising clubs, was back on its feet by the end of 75, and started taking off again in 76. The Uk economy was also starting to struggle from mid-75 for a few years, so I guess there wasn't too much cahs around for many series in that period.

As a complete outsider, I could never understand why Atlantic didn't takeover from F3 completely from about 74 onwards. The cars were quicker, noisier, more spectaculra, and closer to F2 and thus F1.

I wonder if Indylantic hadn't happened, whether Atlantic would have died anyway. So whether Wardle was a crook/cheat I have no idea, but at least he tried to keep the Forumla going.

I only went to the Mallory meeting, still got the prog. Scorching hot day, as were many that summer, teh thing that sticks out for me is that they ran 3 heats, then the final. A bit pointless really with only 14 starters, they used the heats to decide the grid as I remember.

As for driver quality, I agree that perhaps they weren't on a par with 74-75, but the likes of Wentz, Rouff, Dowsett, and Neve were all OK drivers at that level, and backed up by pretty reasonable midfielders like Alo, Bailey (thought I'd better put him in Swift !) Rossiter, Terry Perkins, Birrane and so on, it wasn't too bad.
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Old 8 Dec 2003, 16:33 (Ref:806752)   #11
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On another Indylantic matter, didn't Wentz and Rouff end up in fisticuffs at one point in the season. IIRC there'd been a tangle between them, which ended up being settled off track!!
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Old 9 Dec 2003, 09:47 (Ref:807318)   #12
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Originally posted by Dan Rear
On another Indylantic matter, didn't Wentz and Rouff end up in fisticuffs at one point in the season. IIRC there'd been a tangle between them, which ended up being settled off track!!
Probably all part of the "spectacle" which Wardle intended. Guess they were trying to re-enact Hunt v. Morgan at Crystal Place in 1970, to keep the customers interested!
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Old 9 Dec 2003, 16:39 (Ref:807608)   #13
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Why is everyone son anti-Wardle? Am I missing something here, he wasn't a bad driver in a Surtees as I recall in 73-74 ? From what I remember, there were others involved in Indylantic, a bit contrived I agree with some daft gimmicks, but at least they had a go.
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Old 9 Dec 2003, 17:44 (Ref:807640)   #14
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Swift

As you started this great thread, do you, or your Dad, know anything about Dave Winstanley. He appeared in Indy'tic in 76 with a Brabham BT40. I wonder if this was the ex-Cyd W car, given the geography of them both.

IIRC Winstanley was later involved with the Agents, also Lodge Corner agencies which popped up on another thread on here recently. Did your Dad know him, or indeed Cyd, the latter was a doughty little fighter I recall. Didn't he have a good variety of early Atlantics, eg Chevron B18, Marches,Brabham, Sana ??

Anyone else remember Cyd ?
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Old 9 Dec 2003, 22:11 (Ref:807836)   #15
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Dan

Cyd Williams is still very active in this part of the world: running a garage business specialising in Mercs. not more than 10 minutes from where I live.

Dad first came across Cyd when he had a brief dabble in 1000cc F3. Can't remember what car Cyd was driving at the time but Dad was in an Alexis. Their paths crossed again when Dad first started in Atlantic in 73. Dad bought Cyd's March 722: the ex-Graham Eden car. this car was originally dark blue but was updated with Falconer bodywork organised by Vern Schuppan finished in bright red. This was a great car which dad piloted to the lap record at Oulton, this he held for about 3 weeks until Jim Crawford reset it again. The car had an unhappy ending when the guy that dad sold it was killed in it testing at Silverstone. Can't remember his name but I saw it mentioned in another thread by Chris Townsend. Because of this sad ending it's the only car that mum won't have pictures on display.

Anyway, back to Cyd, don't I recall him having a big off at Oulton in an F1 car of some discription or am I thinking of someone else?

As to Dave Winstanley, the name doesn't ring a bell with me but I'll mention it to dad next time I speak to him, either that or I'll have a skip through his scrap books.
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Old 10 Dec 2003, 00:25 (Ref:807918)   #16
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I'm getting all nostalgic, FAt was the dogs danglies, far better pre Indylantic.
As for Cyd, didn't he once hit the top of the Bailey Bridge?
David Winstanley is normally to be found somewhere at the Autosport Show. He has [or had] some sort of involvement with a video company - maybe called Sports Seen [Scene}. I vaguely recall he had a team mate, possibly called Dave Allen.
Back to the Lodge Corner Agencies days. One weekend I got a call about 3.00am from Tommy Byrne [privateer in FF1600 in those days], who had crashed on the M6 on his way from Stranraer to Donington, writing off his trailer. He wondered if I knew David and could I call him to see if he had a trailer he could borrow. Needless to say, I ended up awake and arranged this trailer. Tommy got to Donington to find that the person that was supposed to have put his race entry in hadn't and he wouldn't get a race. Still, I got to Donington to a meeting I hadn't been planning on attending. Happy days.

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Old 10 Dec 2003, 07:23 (Ref:808071)   #17
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All the talk here of that lovely little bloke Cyd, has reminded me of the thread I posted a year or so ago.
Cyd did hit the Bailey bridge at Oulton, testing Frank Williams' F1 March. That unfortunately ended his F1 aspirations! A very fine driver nevertheless.
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...liams+painting
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Old 10 Dec 2003, 08:52 (Ref:808089)   #18
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The Winstanley Brabham BT40 was indeed the ex Cyd Williams car, but I don't know what chassis it was

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Old 10 Dec 2003, 10:52 (Ref:808177)   #19
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Swift/Diz, thanks for replies. Off thread are you aware of a Northern TNFers meeting being arranged up here (near Preston) on December 29, a Monday. If you're interested go to Atlas F1 Nostalgia Forum for more info, or contact me via this site.

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Old 10 Dec 2003, 12:32 (Ref:808238)   #20
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Going off at a slight tangent here, am I right in remembering Ken Bailey driving a Titan in FF races in the North in the 70s?
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Old 10 Dec 2003, 12:38 (Ref:808248)   #21
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Ken drove a works Titan, partnering Derek Lawrence in 1972. They were both orange and white. Ken did a lot of races (and very successful too) at Croft and Rufforth.
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Old 10 Dec 2003, 13:28 (Ref:808294)   #22
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Ken drove a works Titan, partnering Derek Lawrence in 1972. They were both orange and white. Ken did a lot of races (and very successful too) at Croft and Rufforth.
Thanks Andrew - it confirms what I thought, and reminded me of Ken's team mate, whose name I had forgotten!
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Old 10 Dec 2003, 13:42 (Ref:808318)   #23
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Derek Lawrence was pretty good IIRC. Think he won the first ever FF2000 series in 75, in a Crossle 31F. Though it wasn't brilliant that year, he still beat the likes of Syd Fox, Ian Taylor, Damien Magee, Bradley, Vermilio, Rossiter, etc. Wonder why he didn't make it further. Money I guess...
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Old 10 Dec 2003, 23:28 (Ref:808822)   #24
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Ah, Team Titan, I feel another thread coming on!!!!!

davemorganfan is quite correct, Ken and Derek ran identical MK 6's in 1972. Ken actually briefly ran a Titan the previous year which he had bought from Derek after a bad experience with an Alexis. The following year (1972) they both bought brand new Mk 6's from Roy Thomas and so Team Titan was born. They both received "factory" support and in fact Roy (or Tom as he was more commonly known) used to rebuild their engines after every race for the princely sum of £25!! Derek used to concentrate mainly on the Midland and Southern Championships as he was based near Wednesbury and Ken the Northern Series as he lived (and still does) near Manchester. 1972 was a tremendous year and between them they scored something in the order of 30+ wins. Ken won 3 (I think) big championships that year including the Tate Trophy and the Rose Bearings Trophy meeting at Silverstone. He then retained the Tate Trophy as it was the third year he had won it. He also set lap records at Oulton, Croft, Cadwell, Silverstone and Rufforth. At the end of that year, the car was sold (he still has a copy of the advert from Autosport) bearing in mind its success and it was never shunted for the princely sum of £1595!!!!! I wonder where it is now?

Best races of '72? Well, I guess either the race at Oulton where Derek won, Ken was second and Ian Taylor was third: a fantastic scrap with all manor of lead changes. The second one? A race Ken won; again at Oulton against the Kiwi David Oxton who was in a blue Merlyn (I think the ex-Ian Schekter car?)where after a race long battle, Ken won by a nose. The final lap they completed from island to the finish line side by side! They both received a standing ovation for that one.

During the season, Tom used to come along to the meetings, bringing with him all sorts of new bits to try on the cars. These included air boxes and moulded "winglets" along the nose panels. After nearly 30 years of no contact, an American Andy Antipas, who runs the Titan web site, set up a small reunion in the UK when Ken and Derek got back together again. Following this, Ken also met Tom (again after a break of nearly 30 years) a few times before he sadly passed away.

Well, I'd better stop now or I'll rabbit on all night!!!!!
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Old 12 Dec 2003, 14:51 (Ref:810230)   #25
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Wonderful stuff above. I remember seeing Ken flying at Rufforth and Croft - he was bloody quick in 1972 in that Titan. Some people used to grumble about the shape of the nose on that car, with its tiny wings - it was regarded by some as being outside the spirit of the regulations. They must have been the people who weren't winning races and had inferior cars. Couldn't say if it made much difference, but it was nothing like as dramatic as the (Falconer, I think) bodywork that appeared on the Elden cars later that year.
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