Brabham BT2 Formula Junior

[Ted Walker]

The Mike Harrison car was never identified.Wayne Im on the case in the next week or soI assume that FJ-11-62 was a "fiddle No" to get a Tasman car imported as a junior. Does ANYONE have a photo showing the plate on the dash ????????

[Marcus Mussa]

Originally Posted by David McKinney

FJ-7-62 Earl Jones - your second US car?

David, how did you pick up his name? Is he the one who ran in USRRC in the 60's?

[David McKinney]

Sorry - it's like that in my files - can't recall how it got there!
I've always presumed it was the same man

[Marcus Mussa]

I had the following info from Duncan Rabagliati, earlier this year:

• FJ-10-62 Ernie Devos had BT2 FJ-10-62 in 1962 (in Canada) The car went to Hap Sharp [ 63/64] and then Earl Jones [ 65]

I thought the name Earl Jones rang a bell. I think in fact it may be the other way around, i.e. Hap Sharp then DeVos – as Sharp is shown as the entrant and driver of a BT2 at Road America on 16/6/62. Also DeVos seems to be still driving a Cooper in 1962. When others drove the Cunningham car they were always entered by Cunningham – for this reason I feel Sharp must have owned chassis 10, and that this is the 2nd US car.

There is another BT2 racing in the USA (apart from the Zurlinden car) – Wayne was going to try to find out about this car. Presumably Wayne’s car will turn out to be the other – I think probably it is the Cunningham car, in which case this other car is chassis 10. The photos of Wayne’s “car” show an extra instrument hole (compared with my car) and this tallies with the photo of the car used for the Blunsden test which said he drove the first BT2. The additional instrument was a fuel pressure gauge. The “other” car is definitely a BT2 (I have seen photos, now even I know what to look for!). It even has the inboard rear brakes like mine. Actually just looking over those photos again I am wondering if it is not the Mike Harrison car – the roll-over bar stay is the same (back to the rear chassis member, this of course being a “modern” addition). Mysteriouser and mysteriouser.

[Marcus Mussa]

Coincidentally another forum whose name cannot be mentioned carries a thread which says that Ernie DeVos was killed in March this year in a cycling accident (like Wollek)...

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by FAQ

we do not generally allow links to other forums. Exceptions may be made for something relevant to the discussion, but please check with the Moderator of the forum before you post.

Marcus, if it's relevant to this thread, you may post a link!

[allenbrown]

We have the advert in March 1964 for DeVos and also, assuming it's right, this race at Harewood Acres in July 1963 so the Hap Sharp dates don't look right if the car did go from DeVos to Sharp.

Allen

[Neptune]

I have the 1964 Mid-Ohio racing annual, which of course has photos from 1963 season and DeVos is shown racing in the FJr race, support race for USSRC, in a Brabham. It is the program book from my first ever spectating visit to Mid-Ohio, May 1964, as a guest of one of my high school teachers.

Roger

[Marcus Mussa]

I wouldn't know how to post the link anyway! It was in a thread on Peter Broeker, who was connected to DeVos which leads to an article about DeVos' accident in a US newspaper website. Looks like a conspiracy to stop us finding out more!

But seriously it does look like the other car in the USA is the ex-Harrison car, as apparently the present owner bought it from somebody who bought it from Peter Denty. And the present owner does not know much about its history. Maybe Denty will know?

[275 GTB-4]

related riddle....I told recently that a fella in Canberra purchased a FJ from the Fremantle Motoring Museum and has it stored near here....could be a Brabham...could be an Elfin....

[Marcus Mussa]

Originally Posted by Marcus Mussa

But seriously it does look like the other car in the USA is the ex-Harrison car, as apparently the present owner bought it from somebody who bought it from Peter Denty. And the present owner does not know much about its history. Maybe Denty will know?

Peter Denty confirms that this car (now in EC USA) is indeed the ex-Mike Harrison car, which Harrison bought in about 1979 from Jeremy Bouckley. It had no plate. So this could be chassis 7 or 9. Any ideas? Maybe somebody can ask Bouckley if he remembers anything about it.

[allenbrown]

He'd be contactable via Curborough wouldn't he?

Didn't Bouckley compete in FJ in the 1960s? He could have had that car for years.

[Marcus Mussa]

I'll see if Duncan R. can contact him.

[David McKinney]

There is a ten-tenthser who knows JB - I've been waiting for him to show up and post on this thread (again)

[Marcus Mussa]

Duncan R. says the following:
Ernie De Vos had BT 2 FJ 10 62 New - --Hap sharp [63/64] – Earl Jones [ 65 ] -- de Vos must have got this v late in the season, because he raced the second hand BRJ 38 [It was A Mk 3 rear engined Lola] in 62 to become Canadian champion

FJ 7 62 went new to Howard S Cole in Texas, so unlikely to be that one for Harrison

Most likely is FJ 9 62 – sold new to Frank Ward – after Roger Mac had it, Tony Dean part exchanged it with Rodney Bloor, and he sold it on to J Mansfield – in 1966 it was owned by Geddes Yeates [ who later had a Mk 5 Lola ]

He could have spoken up earlier! – so it looks like three cars went to the States:

3/62 to Cunningham
7/62 to Howard Cole (this looks like the car that Sharp drove in 1962 – both being from Texas)
10/62 to DeVos ... anybody know Earl Jones?? I mean know as in being able to ask him what he did with the car...

Duncan gave me a fax number for JB - I will try. Would be nice if he bought it from Geddes Yeates - funnily enough I think I raced against him (Yeates) in Formula Ford in 1970!

[Marcus Mussa]

Sorry, 2/62 of course for Cunningham

[Marcus Mussa]

Duncan says he has the following from works records of the 60’s:
MRD – chassis FJ/1
FJ-1-62 – to Briggs Cunningham
FJ-2-62 – to J.Reid for John Youl
Etc. as we have already

[RogerH]

The ex Roy James BT2 is in New Zealand with the chassis plate FJ-13-62. I shared a pit with it and raced against it last weekend. It was apparently the ex Denny Hulme car that won the Boxing Day Brands Hatch race and was purported to be the prototype BT6 but it wasn't ready in time. It ran in the NZ National series with a 1500cc engine for many years but has recently been converted back to 1100cc FJ mode.

[David McKinney]

Originally Posted by RogerH

The ex Roy James BT2 is in New Zealand with the chassis plate FJ-13-62. I shared a pit with it and raced against it last weekend. It was apparently the ex Denny Hulme car that won the Boxing Day Brands Hatch race and was purported to be the prototype BT6 but it wasn't ready in time. It ran in the NZ National series with a 1500cc engine for many years but has recently been converted back to 1100cc FJ mode.

That's the accepted history, Roger, but it does have a few drawbacks
1) Photographs show that Hulme's Boxing Day Brands Hatch car was indeed the prototype BT6
2) Roy James's car was not a BT2, but a BT6 (the Hulme/Brands car)
3) It seems unlikely any car numbered FJ-13-62 was ever built

[RogerH]

I was aware there were different versions of the car's history David. The NZ version is that it originally replaced a BT2 that Denny wrote off in early 1963. It was purchased from James (after he went on a compulsory holiday) by Billy Housego who bought it to NZ. It first ran here in 1965 (as far as I can tell as a BT2). I suppose if it is not a BT2 then it could be the prototype BT6? By the way David, you may recollect that a while ago we discussed my Lola Mk 2 BRJ 1. It's now is the process of restoration but an interesting aside has come to light. In John Blunsden's 1961 book it states that one of the Fitzwilliam Mk 2 cars was taken by Ferrari for development purposes and had a Fiat engine fitted. It appears my car was entered at Circuit de Reims-Gueux and at Nurburgring in July 1960 as a Lola Fiat. On stripping the car down the engine mounts appeared to have been drilled to match a Fiat engine (I compared them with the Fiat in my Taraschi) and an additional Italian oil temperature gauge has been fitted. I would like to contact Ferrari archives to see if they have any info but I have no contact details for them.

[Marcus Mussa]

According to Duncan’s records, the Boxing Day Brabham was chassis FJ-1-63, and it was sold to Roy James. In 1964 it was bought by Mike Lawlor and raced by John Miles in 1964 and 1965. In 1966 it went to Ray Thackwell, which is presumably how it got to NZ. There is no such car as FJ-13-62.
It should be easy to see if it is a BT2, but I thought Ted Walker had already verified that this was the case (post #44). The instrument bulkhead on a BT2 is a sheet welded on to two tubes, with holes for the instruments, switches etc. (like a Lotus 22, except down the sides the holes are not completely drilled out). The one for the BT6 is just chassis tubes with the instrument panel tacked on the top (like a F3 car). The BT2 normally will have inboard rear brakes, although some of them will have been converted to outboard, and of course this particular car may be a development of the BT2 anyway.

[allenbrown]

Sorry to ask a dumb question but were the terms BT2 and BT6 actually used in period of were they, like at Coopers, applied aretrospectively?

Allen

[David McKinney]

Marcus
That was the history I believed until recently (before and after discussion with Duncan)
However, it now seems certain that the car Thackwell took to NZ, and which is still there, was a BT2.
Some of us are trying very hard to get to the bottom of all this!

[Dave Zurlinden]

Just found about this site and thread from Wayne Mitchell earlier this week (thanks, Wayne), and glad I did. While I already have had the pleasure of "e-meeting" a few of you, it's a pleasure to now meet up with the rest.

Thanks to John Streets and all those before him who kept the car alive and well, I do indeed have the honor of being the current caretaker of FJ-8-62, and am very proud and pleased to do so. I was in high school when Gardner and Youl were screaming around in this car, and read John Blunsden's Sports Car Graphic article on the Brabham Junior at that time (and everything else I could read of F-Jr., F1, sports cars, you name it) -- never dreamt for a minute someday I would get to restore and race one of them, especially the particular one I have. What a joy!!

I have to say you guys are really working hard at solving the 11-built-where-are-they mysteries, good job! I'm very keen to see the final list, assuming it can ever be called "final"... Meanwhile, a car that seems overlooked is the BT2(?) being raced in the Eastern US by Bob Goeldner. See the Nov/Dec 2005 issue of Vintage Motorsport, where there's a pic and story of the General Racing Rolex Lime Rock event on pp 92 & 93. I've been meaning to try and contact Bob to learn more about him and the car, but haven't done so yet. Interesting on the caption of the photo (top, p93), refers to it as a '63 BT2. We all know the '63s were BT6s, right?, so maybe a typo, maybe what? What is its chassis # and ownership history, if anyone knows?

Last, I think it was Marcus commenting on BT6 vs BT2 differences. A couple more I've noted on ones local to here are top-pivoting pedals vs floor-mounted, inboard roto-flex couplings on the halfshafts (still u-joints on outboard, but now un-splined shafts), and the tailpipe/exhaust being inside the bodywork vs outside in the little recess on the tail. Also, the 6s all appear to have rear anti-roll bars, and all early pictures of BT2s I've seen show no rear bar (I'm presently not using one for that reason, but may consider trying it later).

That's my 2 cents for now!
Best to all,
DZ

[John Turner]

Welcome to 10-Tenths, Dave. Great and interesting first post, too!