[Team] Red Bull: Unbullievable

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard C

"Current" impact minimal? I would agree it is minimal, but also not zero. At least yesterday it was keeping the story alive in social media.

I do think we are going round and round here. My original comments were around "if" U2 were actually going to do this and my opinion as to how that would impact the overall situation. It wasn't focused on some type of social media tease. And I think it is very obvious that if it actually did happen, it would elevate the pressure significantly given it would move out of F1 centric news items and into a more global news item.

Richard

That's all this U2 business is, a social media tease.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

That's all this U2 business is, a social media tease.

May very well be! I used more words, but said as much in the same post you quoted...

Originally Posted by Richard C

As I have said, I frankly doubt the veracity of the entire U2 song story. I guess it still might materialize, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard C

May very well be! I used more words, but said as much in the same post you quoted...

Richard

I thought in the post I quoted you were saying something slightly different.

[Richard C]

Joe Saward has a new post. It covers a number of topics. Towards the back 1/3rd of the article he talk about the current Red Bull situation. I think in short it could be summed up as... Internal fighting, there will be casualties, not sure who that will be or who will win, watch this space.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2024...he-front-line/

Richard

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Richard C

Joe Saward has a new post. It covers a number of topics. Towards the back 1/3rd of the article he talk about the current Red Bull situation. I think in short it could be summed up as... Internal fighting, there will be casualties, not sure who that will be or who will win, watch this space.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2024...he-front-line/

Richard

Interesting.
The general concept of observing a battle is to want the good guys to win, but the question here is 'who are the good guys?'
Because we don't know all the facts and there is so much speculation. misinformation, and false information, and malinformation, we're unsure just who we should be rooting for.

But I think it will come out, and when it does it will wreck some reputations and enhance others.

[Mike Harte]

The complainant involved is to appeal against Red Bull's decision to dismiss her complaint:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68576295

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The complainant involved is to appeal against Red Bull's decision to dismiss her complaint:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68576295

I'm not totally surprised but the timing of the announcement seems a bit off, what with this weekend looming and next week will be the build to the Australian GP the following weekend.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I'm not totally surprised but the timing of the announcement seems a bit off, what with this weekend looming and next week will be the build to the Australian GP the following weekend.

I "think" the source of this news is from twitter (Dutch press) and I also think this same news was rumored/mentioned last week. I am wondering if the main UK and/or F1 media sites have just decided to run it now after maybe some potential confirmation or multiple sources reporting the same thing. In short, it might not be "new news", but new for the bigger media sites. I think the theory on timing (if I remember it correctly) was more related to the end of the period for which an appeal could be filed, but I could be wrong.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard C

I "think" the source of this news is from twitter (Dutch press) and I also think this same news was rumored/mentioned last week. I am wondering if the main UK and/or F1 media sites have just decided to run it now after maybe some potential confirmation or multiple sources reporting the same thing. In short, it might not be "new news", but new for the bigger media sites. I think the theory on timing (if I remember it correctly) was more related to the end of the period for which an appeal could be filed, but I could be wrong.

Richard

You could be right. Neither Autosport/Motosrport are reporting this, nor PlanetF1 or Racer.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

You could be right. Neither Autosport/Motosrport are reporting this, nor PlanetF1 or Racer.

Thinking about this, I'm sure that certain media suggested that she was suspended just before the Saudi weekend, and that this was only possible because Red Bull had, supposedly, given her a limited period in which to appeal and, again it was suggested, that Red Bull were only able to suspend her at that time because that time had elapsed.

[Richard C]

Interesting article in that apparently Max worked with Marko to add in the break clause (as an addendum to his existing contract) that allowed him to leave if Marko exits. And that this was not coordinated with CH and others as Marko was able to approve this alone? The article doesn't say when the addendum was added other than "recently". I think the implication is that the leverage was created as part of internal Red Bull power struggles.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/d...exit/10588570/

Richard

[S griffin]

Of course just because Max has that getout clause doesn’t mean he will exercise if Marko leaves, which by the sounds of it seems quite likely. I can see Horner staying though

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Of course just because Max has that getout clause doesn’t mean he will exercise if Marko leaves, which by the sounds of it seems quite likely. I can see Horner staying though

Except that in a recent interview in Saudi, he stated in no uncertain terms that if Marko goes, then he walks as well. Can't be more clearer than that.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Except that in a recent interview in Saudi, he stated in no uncertain terms that if Marko goes, then he walks as well. Can't be more clearer than that.

Difference between saying something and actually doing it. Could just be his way of putting pressure on Red Bull to keep Marko

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Difference between saying something and actually doing it. Could just be his way of putting pressure on Red Bull to keep Marko

I agree it is to put pressure. I think Max's goal is not to find a way to leave Red Bull F1, but rather to try to maintain future success with the team. And in this case he thinks that is to keep Marko and/or keep the Marko "faction" within in the team.

It is a game of chicken between Max and Red Bull decision makers. I think Max/Marko are winning right now, but who knows as it seems to change daily. Only Max knows what conditions would actually trigger him to walk.

Richard

[steve_r]

I can see why young hotshot F1 drivers have these cosy long term deals with certain teams, but whilst Max is the hottest ticket in the driver paddock, he is right to have a contract that gives him the option to take his services elsewhere. But this whole things is going from one unexpected turn to another. It might not amount to anything of course.

[P38 in workshop]

It would be a very rare thing for a driver to walk away from the team with the dominant car from the most successful design team.There would be at least 16 other drivers keen to replace him,several of whom would have a good chance of doing rather well.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

It would be a very rare thing for a driver to walk away from the team with the dominant car from the most successful design team.There would be at least 16 other drivers keen to replace him,several of whom would have a good chance of doing rather well.

Emerson Fittipaldi did it - disastrously....

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

It would be a very rare thing for a driver to walk away from the team with the dominant car from the most successful design team.There would be at least 16 other drivers keen to replace him,several of whom would have a good chance of doing rather well.

I wonder how the break clause is written. I believe Max's contract goes through 2028. Let's say Marko is let go soon. Does Max have to exercise his "break clause" within a specific time period or might it just allow him to leave at any time before 2028? My point being I can imagine a potential Max exit would be driven by many factors. Let's say the power struggle goes badly and there is an exodus of key technical staff (such as Newey). Maybe that might trigger Max to leave. Or maybe Max just stay as long as he feels it works for him, but then leave before 2028 if something else looks attractive?

Richard

[peebee2]

For some weeks now, I have absolutely been able to see that going to Mercedes could be very attractive indeed to Max.

Now rumours of Aston Martin mega-money, but I'm less convinced on that, although maybe Honda could have some influence.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Emerson Fittipaldi did it - disastrously....

Maybe Victoria will start a new team called Maxosucar and it will be awful.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Richard C

I agree it is to put pressure. I think Max's goal is not to find a way to leave Red Bull F1, but rather to try to maintain future success with the team. And in this case he thinks that is to keep Marko and/or keep the Marko "faction" within in the team.

It is a game of chicken between Max and Red Bull decision makers. I think Max/Marko are winning right now, but who knows as it seems to change daily. Only Max knows what conditions would actually trigger him to walk.

Richard

If we put the politicking bs to one side one thing that can't be ignored is Marko's age...

How much longer to Red Bull honestly think he is needed for?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chunterer

If we put the politicking bs to one side one thing that can't be ignored is Marko's age...

How much longer to Red Bull honestly think he is needed for?

Apparently his job is to hold a seat down at RB F1 to keep Max happy. So maybe it's not a hard job? Or if we include politics... if he was a natural born citizen, he would be young enough to the be President of the USA. He sits right in-between the two current candidates age wise! Maybe Marko needs to get a food taster and body guard because any death might be viewed as "Well, it was just his time, look how old he was!"

Richard

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by chunterer

If we put the politicking bs to one side one thing that can't be ignored is Marko's age...

How much longer to Red Bull honestly think he is needed for?

He was Dieter’s best friend but hasn’t been “needed” by the company
(who employ him) or the race team for a long long time.
Dieter’s son probably sees helping him out as what his father would want him to do.

[Skam85]

Legacy wise, there can't be any doubt of Marko's contribution to Red Bull.

But yes, how much more he can is the biggest question mark.