Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > ACO Regulated Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11 Oct 2012, 08:26 (Ref:3149806)   #76
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,376
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Speaking of comparisons between series, how about some like cars?

How about Aston Martin's GTE Vantage vs. Their GT3 Vantage run in SGT GT300 class;
GTE Vantage fastest test time- 1:41.459 vs. GT3 Vantage Qualifying RD.6 Fuji- 1'40.991

How about Porsche's 911 GTE Am vs. Hankook 911 GT3 GT300 class;
GTE 911- 1:43.270 vs. HK 911GT3 Qualifying- 1'40.583
TF110 is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 08:34 (Ref:3149811)   #77
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
Nakajima said that Super GT cars use softer, but presumably less durable, tires than LMP cars. It seems to apply to the GT300/GT3 spec cars vs their similar GTE equivalents too, as well as the fact that the GT3 cars do run larger air restrictors, and Fuji for SGT cars is a big time power track with that long straight.
chernaudi is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 08:35 (Ref:3149812)   #78
MitchZ06
Veteran
 
MitchZ06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
New Zealand
Australia
Posts: 2,261
MitchZ06 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Why not the Pro Porsche for a better comparison...
MitchZ06 is offline  
__________________
MBL - SpeedyMouse Race House
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 08:37 (Ref:3149814)   #79
gwyllion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Belgium
Posts: 8,738
gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
Toyota obviously has some great cornering speeds and acceleration if they're down almost 10kmh on the straights but setting equal times to Audi.
Perhaps it makes more sense to look at the top speeds of the afternoon test session when the teams were experimenting a bit less with aero settings.
  • Audi #1: 293.5 km/h
  • Audi #2: 292.7 km/h
  • Toyota #7: 288 km/h
  • Rebellion #12: 287.2 km/h
  • Oak #15: 291.9 km/h
  • JRM #22: 287.2 km/h
In that case, the difference in top speed between Audi and Toyota is around 5 km/h. That is in line with what we saw in the previous races.

Average of best top speeds during the 6 hours of Bahrain:
  • Audi #1 (e-tron): 285.5 km/h
  • Audi #2 (e-tron): 284.3 km/h
  • Toyota #7: 278.5 km/h
Average of best top speeds during the 6 hours of Sao Paulo:
  • Audi #2 (ultra): 281.5 km/h
  • Audi #1 (e-tron): 280.9 km/h
  • Toyota #7: 274.7 km/h
Average of best top speeds during the 6 hours of Silverstone:
  • Audi #2 (ultra): 275.2 km/h
  • Audi #1 (e-tron): 274.5 km/h
  • Toyota #7: 267.7 km/h
gwyllion is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 09:10 (Ref:3149830)   #80
Victor_RO
Veteran
 
Victor_RO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Romania
Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Posts: 6,269
Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchZ06 View Post
Why not the Pro Porsche for a better comparison...
Because the 77 Porsche did not run in the test session, the only GTE-Pro car to run in it was the Aston.
Victor_RO is offline  
__________________
When in doubt? C4.
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 09:40 (Ref:3149851)   #81
tux
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Posts: 4,857
tux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
It is no suprise to see that GT3 cars are quicker than GTE cars now though is it? All of the direct comparison cars Porsche, Ferrari, Aston have more power, the same driver aids + abs, similar downforce levels in GT3 spec.

Anyway, Whats happening with the Honda/HPD LMP project, i thought it was announced around Le Mans time they were going to enter with a full manufactuer/works project run by JRM/Strakka but i cant find any other information about it.
tux is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 09:50 (Ref:3149856)   #82
Victor_RO
Veteran
 
Victor_RO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Romania
Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Posts: 6,269
Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tux View Post
Anyway, Whats happening with the Honda/HPD LMP project, i thought it was announced around Le Mans time they were going to enter with a full manufactuer/works project run by JRM/Strakka but i cant find any other information about it.
They're probably still evaluating which team will get more manufacturer backing.
Victor_RO is offline  
__________________
When in doubt? C4.
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 12:51 (Ref:3149951)   #83
gwyllion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Belgium
Posts: 8,738
gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
It is always interesting to compare the average lap times of the long runs.
car driver laps average lap time
1 Lotterer 35 1:29.988
1 Lotterer 34 1:31.248
2 Kristensen 36 1:30.782
7 Nakajima 32 1:30.437
7 Wurz 30 1:30.390
Lotterer still seems to suffer from tyre wear in his second stint.
Paul Truswell calculated exactly the same average lap times: http://trussers.blogspot.com/2012/10...est-close.html

He calculated that 34 lap stints are necessary to finish the race with just 6 pit stops. Audi can manage this, but Toyota probably not. So Toyota will need some rain or a safety car to avoid an additional stop.
gwyllion is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 14:53 (Ref:3149998)   #84
GT3.14
Veteran
 
GT3.14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 834
GT3.14 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGT3.14 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGT3.14 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor_RO View Post
They're probably still evaluating which team will get more manufacturer backing.
But OAK Racing has complicated this with their deal. Perhaps Honda sees OAK as the way forward.
GT3.14 is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 15:24 (Ref:3150008)   #85
joeb
Race Official
Veteran
 
joeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 15,594
joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
Perhaps it makes more sense to look at the top speeds of the afternoon test session when the teams were experimenting a bit less with aero settings.
  • Audi #1: 293.5 km/h
  • Audi #2: 292.7 km/h
  • Toyota #7: 288 km/h
  • Rebellion #12: 287.2 km/h
  • Oak #15: 291.9 km/h
  • JRM #22: 287.2 km/h
In that case, the difference in top speed between Audi and Toyota is around 5 km/h. That is in line with what we saw in the previous races.

Oak's speed is quite refreshing to see after missing the last few rounds. I guess they have come to terms with the HPD engine quite quickly. We know the chassis to be slippery based on some trap times at previous races.
joeb is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 15:42 (Ref:3150013)   #86
Simmi
Veteran
 
Simmi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,993
Simmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor_RO View Post
They're probably still evaluating which team will get more manufacturer backing.
I think Graham Goodwin came out recently and said it wasn't happening as the funding wasn't there.

But then you see this:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103263

That's just one guy within Honda's opinion. They are making out like the WTCC project is a works effort which I wasn't aware of. So I'm not sure it comes down to money - more desire from them to go top-level sportscar racing. Let's see what happens with the NSX.

You'd think the success of Toyota might have changed that but obviously not.
Simmi is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 17:01 (Ref:3150036)   #87
Coopz21 x
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2011
England
South West, UK
Posts: 97
Coopz21 x has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I swear Midweek Motorsport said that the Honda thing would likely be GTE?
Coopz21 x is offline  
__________________
XBL Gamertag: Captain Cake21x
PSN: Jimmyskills_x
Twitter: James_EP3
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 17:18 (Ref:3150042)   #88
JAG__
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
England
Posts: 31
JAG__ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
NXS GTE + possible increased backing for customer LMP teams.

What's been ruled out, for the time being, is a full factory P1 team. The Motorsport-Total Toyota interviews mention Honda have been involved in recent ACO/FIA reg discussions, but they would regardless with the HPD interest.

They also mentioned Jaguar have been looking at P1 but keeping quiet.
JAG__ is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 18:09 (Ref:3150059)   #89
CTD
Veteran
 
CTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Denmark
Aarhus, Jylland, Denmark
Posts: 6,654
CTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Shouldn't we take the Rumor talking, to the actual Rumor thread?
CTD is offline  
__________________
Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan)
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 20:13 (Ref:3150102)   #90
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTD View Post
Shouldn't we take the Rumor talking, to the actual Rumor thread?
That is probably a good idea, but the announcement, what ever it's supposed to be, was scheduled for this race weekend, either Friday or Saturday most likely. That aside, it would be perfectly suited to the rumor thread, and that the NSX GTE has been rumored for a while, seemingly about as long as the road car has been.

Of course, wouldn't it be ironic that if Honda is involved that this announcement is to be made at Fuji, a track that since 2000 has been owned by Toyota, who have a headlining LMP1 car in the field?
chernaudi is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 20:45 (Ref:3150119)   #91
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
And back on the topic of Fuji, it looks like the forecasts of rain are out the window and have reverted back to the initial sunny and mild forecast for the whole race weekend.
chernaudi is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 21:21 (Ref:3150132)   #92
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,376
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
Perhaps it makes more sense to look at the top speeds of the afternoon test session when the teams were experimenting a bit less with aero settings.
  • Audi #1: 293.5 km/h
  • Audi #2: 292.7 km/h
  • Toyota #7: 288 km/h
  • Rebellion #12: 287.2 km/h
  • Oak #15: 291.9 km/h
  • JRM #22: 287.2 km/h
In that case, the difference in top speed between Audi and Toyota is around 5 km/h. That is in line with what we saw in the previous races.

Average of best top speeds during the 6 hours of Bahrain:
  • Audi #1 (e-tron): 285.5 km/h
  • Audi #2 (e-tron): 284.3 km/h
  • Toyota #7: 278.5 km/h
Average of best top speeds during the 6 hours of Sao Paulo:
  • Audi #2 (ultra): 281.5 km/h
  • Audi #1 (e-tron): 280.9 km/h
  • Toyota #7: 274.7 km/h
Average of best top speeds during the 6 hours of Silverstone:
  • Audi #2 (ultra): 275.2 km/h
  • Audi #1 (e-tron): 274.5 km/h
  • Toyota #7: 267.7 km/h
Yeah, a bit less with aero settings! Maybe they finalized what type of wing level to run. Look at the morning session- the Audi did 295kmh while the Toyota did 282kmh. So what is the story here? Audi adds a little more wing in the afternoon to achieve about the same time Toyota does, while Toyota takes off a little wing and achieves about the same time as the morning session. Take a look at the sector times from the morning. Sector 3 Audi were 43.2's while Toyota was 42.6's. Then in the afternoon session Toyota's best 3rd sector times were 42.8's and Audi's 42.8/42.9! Looks like they added a bit more downforce while Toyota took some out. Toyota achieved the best 1st sector in the afternoon session which is the end of the straight, then the acceleration out of Turn 1.
TF110 is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 21:21 (Ref:3150133)   #93
deggis
Veteran
 
deggis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Finland
Posts: 6,206
deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purist View Post
Deggis and Greg, I can tell you this much right off. The F1 cars at Monza were topping out at 200-203-mph on their own. Even with DRS activated, they couldn't go beyond 210-mph.

Among those four longest stretches at Le Mans, the slowest of those, for a factory LMP1, is 210-mph. The other three see speeds of 212-216-mph.
I already said Sarthe is invalid as an comparison, because obviously F1 car doesn't have official data from there. Lenghts of the straights might be same, but the track still isn't the same and sections leading to those straights are not same.

You seem to conveniently forget that post-2011 LMP1s do not have achieve that high speeds.

Quote:
LMP1s do not have DRS, and the energy required to attain a given speed goes up with the square of the velocity. Current F1 cars are supposed to be making ~800-hp, while current LMP1s are supposed to be making ~600-hp.
How is this relevant at all? Are we talking about real life, current F1 cars or not?

You will find F1 top speeds from here (select race > qual > speed trap) and you will also find top speeds for ILMC and WEC here.

What you will not find though are higher top speeds for LMP1. There seems to be a similar 10-20 km/h gap across the circuits.

Last edited by deggis; 11 Oct 2012 at 21:40.
deggis is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 22:31 (Ref:3150166)   #94
JAG__
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
England
Posts: 31
JAG__ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Bertrand Baguette estimates the HPD motor has a 50bhp advantage over the Judd. Even if it's half that, in addition to better reliability, that's significant.

http://www.speedactiontv.be/Bertrand...t-10156-1.aspx
JAG__ is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2012, 02:28 (Ref:3150227)   #95
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,376
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Practice 1 is underway. Toyota leading the way after a half hour with 1:29.564.
TF110 is online now  
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2012, 02:34 (Ref:3150228)   #96
nasdriv87
Veteran
 
nasdriv87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Brazil
Brazil
Posts: 761
nasdriv87 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
any live comments?!?!?

they must show the track not the hills...


Last edited by nasdriv87; 12 Oct 2012 at 02:48.
nasdriv87 is offline  
__________________
what get us in trouble is not what we don't know
it's what we know for sure that just ain't so...
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2012, 03:30 (Ref:3150236)   #97
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,376
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Radio LeMans always covers these practices, if that's what you mean about live comments.
Toyota first into the 28's, 1:28.809 from Nakajima.

Last edited by TF110; 12 Oct 2012 at 03:59.
TF110 is online now  
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2012, 03:56 (Ref:3150239)   #98
nasdriv87
Veteran
 
nasdriv87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Brazil
Brazil
Posts: 761
nasdriv87 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
Radio LeMans always covers these practices, if that's what you mean about live comments.
Toyota first into the 28's, 1:28.808 from Nakajima.
sorry i had forgoten about that, and i'm already listening them here...

good luck to TS030 and watch out from Strakka while passing them while in race...
nasdriv87 is offline  
__________________
what get us in trouble is not what we don't know
it's what we know for sure that just ain't so...
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2012, 04:14 (Ref:3150242)   #99
Canada ALMS fan
Veteran
 
Canada ALMS fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Canada
Calgary, Canada
Posts: 2,296
Canada ALMS fan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCanada ALMS fan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCanada ALMS fan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
No #61 AF Corse Waltrip/Kauffman 458, Rob had to leave so not enough drivers this weekend.
Canada ALMS fan is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2012, 05:36 (Ref:3150253)   #100
Purist
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
United States
Wichita, Kansas, USA
Posts: 5,892
Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!
Deggis, a significantly greater proportion of the lap at Le Mans is composed of high-speed, high-downforce corners than is the case at Monza. Therefore, regardless of F1 cars having not run there, it is only reasonable that F1 cars would run equal if not more downforce at Le Mans than at Monza. They're already so drag-limited that I can't see them gaining much of anything trying longer gears at Le Mans, especially if they run more downforce.

Also, how is it possible to run only 311km/h in qualifying at Suzuka, with free reign on DRS, and run 318km/h in the race with no DRS, and 322/323km/h with the limited allotment of DRS? Sorry, those numbers do NOT add up. Also, the number from Spa qualifying is 310km/h, but weren't we seeing 311-313km/h from the Audis last year at Spa?

I must say that I really don't feel like I can count DRS-generated speeds as legitimate. If they had free reign to use the system in the race (which I know would defeat the point of it as it is intended), that might be another matter. However, it is what it is, and not a Chaparral flap, so it really comes off as a video game feature. I really cannot see it as an accurate reflection of what the car setup alone would make possible under the current conditions.

Deggis, I don't know what to do with your second link. The listing on the left almost instantly goes from clickable links to straight text, so I can't actually click on them to get any session results. (I checked my Adobe Reader, and no notice of needing an update came up, as far as I could tell.)

Looks like the Toyota has it in Practice 1. I'm looking forward to seeing just how quickly these guys can lap this Fuji layout.

(Of course, there was something just wild about those Porsche 956s hurtling around the old track, with no chicanes, and averaging nearly 140-mph. The old, unmolested, 300R was something else!)
Purist is offline  
__________________
The only certainty is that nothing is certain.
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spa 6 hours 2012 Peter Mallett Historic Racing Today 441 10 Nov 2012 17:53
[WEC Race] Bahrain 6 Hours 2012 GT3.14 ACO Regulated Series 299 3 Oct 2012 16:19
Zolder 24 hours 2012 snowen250 Sportscar & GT Racing 21 8 Sep 2012 14:17
2012 24 Hours of Daytona kober North American Racing 209 1 Feb 2012 08:39
Dubai 24 Hours 2012 RoeDent Sportscar & GT Racing 121 16 Jan 2012 10:18


All times are GMT. The time now is 17:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.