Privateer entries

[OVERSTEER]

According to Autosport, privateer teams (from F3000,CART,IRL or sportscars) could buy year old chassis from Manufacturer teams and enter them as their own entries, do you think this will happen?

[Valve Bounce]

The folowing is taken from the letter to the FIA from Ron & Frank:

In addition to these initiatives, DaimlerChrysler circulated a letter to the engine manufacturers in Formula One proposing to offer a second team an engine supply arrangement at costs far below current market rates. Without hesitation, Toyota and Renault responded positively to this proposal and agreed in principle to make similar arrangements available. Other manufacturers may well have followed had these ideas not been dismissed by the FIA at the meeting on the 15th January. Either way, this plan would have meant that there were sufficient low priced engine programmes available to sustain the current size of Formula One.

Furthermore, in a meeting on the morning of the 15th January 2003, the Team Principals and Bernie Ecclestone unanimously agreed, provided that there was rule stability, to reallocate television income within the sport to ensure that all of the current participants would be able to remain in the sport throughout the 2003 season. This included substantial sums to which McLaren and WilliamsF1 had an entitlement.

This, coupled with the lower cost engines supplied under the DaimlerChrysler initiative, would put any well-run team on a healthy footing. In light of the above initiatives it is surprising that the FIA has stated that the teams had “produced nothing” particularly when the initiatives currently being pursued do not, in the judgement of the majority of the teams and manufacturers, reduce costs in our sport.

Coupled with the proposal in the lead post, it would have meant a very healthy field and a way to make use of the many white elephants as teams introduce new cars. I fully appreciate that there is little chance that such private teams will ever challenge for podiums, but will help ensure private teams will be there whenever a manufacturer pulls out of F1.

[Lee Janotta]

Red Bull'd probably put a team together, but I can't think of anyone else who would and could.

And it's a matter of prying Max's head out of his rectum, which is an engineering feat I don't even think Ferrari can pull off!

[kristof14]

Problem is the only competitive cars would be the year old McLarens, Williams and Ferraris. And they wouldn't exactly be cheap to buy.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by kristof14
Problem is the only competitive cars would be the year old McLarens, Williams and Ferraris. And they wouldn't exactly be cheap to buy.

Why not? They are worthless to the teams and take up space. This way they can sell the chassis and also supply the older engines to the new teams. This will ensure that somebody will pick up the tail of the field in races. In this way, the top teams will end with pseudo 'B' teams for their budding drivers.

[GTV27]

I've posted elsewhere that selling chassis is a good plan. If coupled with more "b" grade engine supplies (at reasonable rates), then there would be more Cart and F3000 teams willing to have a punt on F1, thereby boosting the field.

Running theme as pseudo B teams is a good one as it makes better use of existing infrastructure (both intellectual and capital).

[steve_r]

Problem is, its not just a chassis you need to go F1 racing. Will these new teams be given all the spares needed, and all the relevant compter technology as well?

What happens when Max & Bernie decide to change the technical spec rules?

[Armco Bender]

If its acheivable theres no reason there couldn't be 1/2 a dozen new teams in the next few years.If theres a chassis/engine package that can be put together,theres certainally enough people out there who would have a crack at F1.Its been a closed shop for nearly the last 20 years.The more new teams the merrier.

[BootsOntheSide]

This diea isn't practical. Just to run an F1 team with other cars would require vast logistics well beyond that of a CART team, and Steve has agood point that the rules would ahve to remain the same year in year out, which as we've seen isn't happening

[ss_collins]

This diea isn't practical. Just to run an F1 team with other cars would require vast logistics well beyond that of a CART team, and Steve has agood point that the rules would ahve to remain the same year in year out, which as we've seen isn't happening

rubbish - have you ever seen a NDS Euroboss race? its much cheaper to buy and run a pre made F1 job than design a nd build it yourself. No privateers should come back asap. Phoenix nearly did....

[mirwin]

If a Minardi were to run a year old Ferrari chassis, what would they do in the first races of the year when Ferrari would also be running the year old chassis?
What about staff poaching? It would be cheaper to hire someone from Minardi who has knowledge of the Ferrari, rather then hire someone directly from Ferrari.

[EERO]

I voted "Not sure" for when it will happen, but I think it would an opportunity for F1 to learn from its own History.

The issue that I am curious about is the mating of customer engines to customer chassis. Obviously, the cars are designed as complete systems and I think it would unfeasible to suggest mating Ferrari chassis to a cossie, though it could be done with some degree of re-engineering.


I'm all for it. The proposed idea of "B" teams suggested by bouncey menas that the test drivers might have a forum to display their talents.

[NiceGuyEddie]

Only as a last resort.

[Armco Bender]

the mating of customer engines

Minardi have just put the Ford engine in last years Asiatech powered chassis,cant be to hard or expensive if they have done it.
More likely senario is a Reynard/Ford or Lola/ford type customer car.

[mirwin]

why not come up with a standard engine mount so that any engine can go in any car.

[Valve Bounce]

From Autosport:

Minardi team principal Paul Stoddart has admitted that his team could buy a Formula 1 chassis from a championship-contending team next year, rather than build its own machine.

There's more at Autosport if you want to log on and sign in to that site.

It is interesting that Minardi were testing at Fiorano. I'll bet they are eyeing second hand/used cars from Ferrari for next year. (Previously owned and driven by an old lady, never raced, never rallied, never driven on a dirt road, and never driven above 100 MPH ....etc)

[Mackmot]

McLaren dont sell their cars, Ron keeps every chassis in his personal colection and one of each at Donington. If you could get any of him for TGP or Euroboss it would be worth millions.

[Valve Bounce]

They are really worth nothing if he won't sell them - you could say "priceless"

[Tristan]

Can't say I'm keen on the idea. I've always kinda liked the fact that each manufacturer must build their own chassis. However, I CAN see the logic behind privateering. Won't work, but I can see the logic!!

[gttouring]

isn't Minardi already a privateer team? really their finacial situation looks the part-and come back arrows!

[Mr V]

IMO, privateers will never be seen in F1 again as it's too expensive to allow it to happen.

[ASCII Man]

As much as i would like to see privateers back in F1, i don't think it's ever going to happen again.

[EERO]

Originally posted by gttouring
isn't Minardi already a privateer team? really their finacial situation looks the part-and come back arrows!

"Priveteer" refers to teams which purchase another team's Chassis, the most famous being Rob Walker whose driver Jo "Seppi" Siffert won the 1968 British Grand Prix in a Privately entered, (non-factory) Lotus 49. Walker also ran Stirling Moss in Private Lotuses, (Loti?) for several years.

I think the appropriate term to describe Minardi's (and Sauber's and Jordan's) status is non-affiliated or non-aligned teams. We refer to them colloquially as "Minnows".

They are not Privateers because they construct their own chassis.

[NiceGuyEddie]

Originally posted by ®îjñtjûh
As much as i would like to see privateers back in F1,

Why is that?

Do their cars look prettier?

Their cars certainly aren't faster, their drivers certainly aren't better.

So why is it important to you that a team can be called a privateer (or non-affiliated if you please)?

Is the need for an unmistakable underdog (Minardi) of human nature?

Sure, factoryteams can come an go as they please, or as their economic-interests dictate. But same goes for privateers. Where factoryteams pull the plug, privateers go broke. When entered and running, factoryteams fight just as hard as private teams.

[Spaced Invader]

yes. if only to bulk up the grids a bit.