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19 Jun 2015, 16:30 (Ref:3552199) | #51 | ||
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The latest mud slinging is way over the top from Red Bull and very destructive.. They have won eight championships with Renault and should be way more supportive..
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20 Jun 2015, 00:33 (Ref:3552297) | #52 | ||
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The one thing that doesn't do anythin' is moanin'. Particularly if you're target is a French company who have alot of pride. Renault won't take well to being treated as another one of DM's employees. What works is action, governed by sound judgement. DM is at a crossroads now and has some tough decisions to make. That's either to knuckle down with Renault and try to lure in a non-F1 manufacturer, make an engine in-house (ok, unlikely to happen) or quit.
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20 Jun 2015, 01:12 (Ref:3552300) | #53 | ||
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What might the game plan be? To annoy Renault so much that they leave, and have to pay RBR & STR some kind of compensation for breaking their contracts.. money that could be used to pay for customer Ferrari powerplants?
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20 Jun 2015, 01:56 (Ref:3552306) | #54 | ||
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That would be the strategic approach GTR, however, I think RBR have just reached the point where their frustrations at paying a supplier $100 million a year to produce a boat anchor that is ruining an investment of hundreds of millions of dollars has got the better of them! Let's face it the Renault PU has just been an unmitigated disaster! Too little up front investment, too little investment in putting it right! |
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20 Jun 2015, 02:41 (Ref:3552319) | #55 | ||
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20 Jun 2015, 12:38 (Ref:3552402) | #56 | |||
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And Red Bull team is a Red Bull vanity project. Having a team isn't an optimum promotional strategy. Vanity accounts for a drinks mogul buying a team outright. |
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If I had asked my customer what they wanted, they would've said a faster horse. -Henry Ford |
20 Jun 2015, 12:44 (Ref:3552405) | #57 | ||
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i can pretty much guarantee that if i was losing hundreds of millions i would be significantly louder than RB are being.
no responsibly run company should take a situation like this on the chin imo. |
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20 Jun 2015, 12:50 (Ref:3552408) | #58 | ||
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Perhaps it is sour grapes, but the Renault 2015 F1 engine is the worst of the 4 available (Mercedes '15, Ferrari '15, Ferrari '14 & Renault '15), and is simply not reliable.
Losing track time because the team is limiting time on the engine in case it blows up and they cop another penalty doesnt do much for tuning what doesnt seem to be a particularly fantastic Red Bull chassis either... If the Renault was at least reliable, the stress may not be so loud! By way of contrast, Mr Perez's Benz reportedly went almost 5,000km before they changed it out this weekend in Austria, without a failure! If Renault make it through a race meeting without losing an engine its a cause for joy. Red Bull Ferrari please... |
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20 Jun 2015, 13:43 (Ref:3552424) | #59 | |
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Meanwhile,McLaren are doing worse and quietly going about their business.Perhaps because they are a racing organisation rather than the promotional arm of another business.
Red Bull are subject to the same regulations as all the other teams and are in the position they currently occupy because of decisions they made earlier.Their options range from walking away to cooperating with their engine supplier to achieve the greatest level of success while the current token system is in existence.With all the strategists at their disposal I would expect them to evaluate all possibilities-and take into account the fact that most of us despise whingers. |
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20 Jun 2015, 14:01 (Ref:3552426) | #60 | ||
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no doubt Mclaren are fighting tooth and nail and no doubt conversations are heated behind closed doors...which is all well and good, but for me i think im a little sad they show so little of that fight, that anger, that frustration on track.
in public they seem resigned to their fate which makes RB's loudness, by comparison, sound like a fighting spirit imo. to each their own of course |
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20 Jun 2015, 14:29 (Ref:3552437) | #61 | ||
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20 Jun 2015, 15:10 (Ref:3552456) | #62 | |||
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You'd swear listenin' to DM that RBR's last WC was ten years ago or something. The guy needs to start playin' it smarter than doing his temper tantrum self harm thing. |
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20 Jun 2015, 20:38 (Ref:3552522) | #63 | ||
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I do think it's somewhat disingenuous of RBR to complain like they have about Renault. It's not as if Mateschitz went into F1 blind fold. We all know teams, drivers and engine manufacturers have their ups and downs as do teams, sports men and women in other sports. In the case of F1, they should look to McLaren. That was a bold move to go from Mercedes to Honda but there's no whining from them. They're knuckling down trying to get it right.
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20 Jun 2015, 22:38 (Ref:3552545) | #64 | |||
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21 Jun 2015, 01:08 (Ref:3552572) | #65 | ||
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Renault has not yet produced a really competitive engine despite the results they have been given by RBR, I think Mateschitz has every right to throw his toys at Renault for their complete lack of commitment! Renault are just a very expensive liability! |
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21 Jun 2015, 01:25 (Ref:3552577) | #66 | |||
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If I had asked my customer what they wanted, they would've said a faster horse. -Henry Ford |
21 Jun 2015, 01:28 (Ref:3552580) | #67 | ||
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I saw some comment the other day (Autosport??) that RB will not use customer engines as they are not in F1 to use a motor that is down on HP and thus impossible to win with while the factory cars are still on the track. I think that says it all about how they go about competing in F1, they might enjoy it but in the end it is a business above everything. If they act like petulant children in some eyes I don't think they care, they just want a result and that means winning. Last edited by Casper; 21 Jun 2015 at 01:33. |
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21 Jun 2015, 01:37 (Ref:3552582) | #68 | ||
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RBR needs to have delegations of executives sent to the HQs of all the world's car manufacturers in an effort to win a works deal - yeah, even Honda.
As for his dealings with Renault. He needs to do what he has to do with Renault - but he needs to keep it behind closed doors. Renault's involvement in F1 is questionable and they are mulling over buying a team even if they do stick around. Mounting public attacks on proud Renault executives is a losing proposition and will push Renault further away from Red Bull. Why would Renault go that extra mile for a team that has lost the Newey magic , is now having trouble winning and when they do win finds that their own brand is overshadowed by the glitzy Red Bull brand? No reason other than lukewarm reasons. |
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21 Jun 2015, 01:43 (Ref:3552585) | #69 | |||
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As I said drivers and engine manufacturers have their ups and downs and Mateschitz must have been fully aware of this before he got into F1. I'm sure shifting a few more cans of Red Bull will cover his $200m. Those blue cans certainly helped pay for Baumgartner's jump. The fact Mateschitz is threatening to quit F1 over this, sounds to me like this has more to do with his ego than anything else. |
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21 Jun 2015, 01:50 (Ref:3552587) | #70 | ||
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This is about Renault's lack of performance! |
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21 Jun 2015, 02:22 (Ref:3552590) | #71 | |||
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How long did Mateschitz, think RBR would remain the team to beat, forever? It strikes me there is a lack of realism on RBR's part. Maybe they should quit F1. |
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21 Jun 2015, 03:53 (Ref:3552599) | #72 | ||
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21 Jun 2015, 07:35 (Ref:3552630) | #73 | |||
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House, House “Trust But Verify” - Commissioner Frank Reagan, Blue Bloods |
21 Jun 2015, 07:41 (Ref:3552631) | #74 | |||
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A 5,000km-capable Benz, even in Force India B-spec would be better than this. That RBR has fallen to 4th in the constructors title has financial implications for them. We dont know the maths, but it would be interesting to know how much Red Bull actually has to fund the team, given their take from the Bernie Tax, and the constructor championship payments. And money from Infiniti and others. If the constructor money falls off, Red Bull will have to make up the gap themselves... |
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House, House “Trust But Verify” - Commissioner Frank Reagan, Blue Bloods |
21 Jun 2015, 11:47 (Ref:3552687) | #75 | |||
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However, if it's going to be seen purely as a business, it also has to be seen a high tech business, as that's the nature of F1 and with anything high tech, it's tricky and not everyone's going to get it right everytime. Is Renault's history that chequered? They started in F1 1977 and first quit as a constructor at the end of 1985 but continued supplying engines to other teams, something they had done since '83. Apart from a hiatus, 1986 -'89 and another from 1997 - 2000, a total of six years, they've been around for sometime. |
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
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