Red Bull Racing, So far so...

[Adam43]

...good or bad?

It is early days and it is probably too early to say. However so we think they are doing the right things?

Have they hired the right people, have they sacked the right people? In the right way? The driver situation is covered elsewhere, but I guess important here.

However there are other factors. Have they changed the structure or the way the company works since Ford left?

questions, questions, questions...

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

As expected Red Bull got a bit of a panning in the new issue of F1 Racing, I doubt that will help the public opinion of the operation.

Personally I don't rate them very highly at the minute, hiring three drivers and not telling them what their roles are seems a strange move (although it's the same at Williams) and booting out the two main guys who seem to be the first Jaguar bosses with half a clue (aside from Rahal) just strikes me as plain dumb.

I guess time will tell, but it doesn't look overly rosey at the minute.

[Kicking-back]

They've made decisive changes.

They've made clear this is a new team and Jaguar is in the past.

They've appointed a talented up-and-coming team manager.

They've hired an experienced lead driver.

They are a very wealthy organisation.

All of these are positives.


I think we need to forget the past, be thankful the team is continuing, and wish them all the best.

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

While I agree with your points to an extent, being a wealthy organisation doesn't automatically translate into RBR having a substantial budget, which they will need to rise above Jaguar's past results.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Silk Cut Jaguar

While I agree with your points to an extent, being a wealthy organisation doesn't automatically translate into RBR having a substantial budget, which they will need to rise above Jaguar's past results.

Even if they have a 'substantial budget', it doesn't automaticly confirm sucsess.
Just look at Toyota.

[BootsOntheSide]

I don't see anything wrong with leaving Klien and Liuzzu to sweat over who becomes the second race driver, especially as they have the time to decide, and can get a more accurate impression of which of the two is the better choice by testing them for longer. As for the management changes, KB's interpretation is probably accurate - they've put their own stamp ont eh team,a dn hried someone wh deserves his chance to run an F1 team.

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

Originally Posted by luke

Even if they have a 'substantial budget', it doesn't automaticly confirm sucsess.
Just look at Toyota.

Not having one guarentees no success though. Toyota's investment is under the spotlight this season and after BAR's claims of winning races in 99 and big budget they have eventually come good.

[Glen]

Red Bull's disarray is Jordan's opportunity. Toyota power for the Jordans, albeit in what I assume will be an under-prepared/under-developed chassis - it is only an outside chance, but I do think they could worry Red Bull if RBR don't get their act together pretty soon.

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by Glen

Red Bull's disarray is Jordan's opportunity.

If Red Bull is in disarray, what would taht make Jordan then. Disarray x1000?

[Glen]

Jordan have been struggling for some years, and they are perpetually in the situation that they are lucky to make it to the grid at all - I'm not denying that. But - don't underestimate the difficulty of F1... Jaguar have been going in the wrong direction for quite some time; they have been too conservative with the car design, and even then they have made basic errors; they are just about the benchmark for management cock-ups, and the new RBR heirarchy seem to be equally confused about where to take the team - they have got a lot of improving to do.

At least Jordan know themselves, have an established way of working and a respectable tradition of designing and building good cars (even if they lack the budget to develop those designs!). RBR would do well to realise that getting settled-down (in terms of the way they work, who is in charge, what direction they are heading in) is a high priority - not only that but they should also realise that at some point, as soon as posible, they have got to stop changing management every five minutes and just get on with it.

[JohnMiller]

RBR have not changed management every 5 minutes though.

They have changed it once, which was obviously little real surprise to anyone involved.

[Knowlesy]

Not sure what to make of Red Bull.

Although I wouldn't have chosen DC to lead my team, I would still have picked somebody experienced and they have at least done that. So that's a brownie point at least...

However, to then go and sack the guys who carried the team (along with Webber) for the past couple of years beggars belief. Christian Horner has a good reputation but will he do as good a job as Purnell and Pitchforth did? I have my doubts.

Then there is the continuing fracas over the second seat which should have been decided long ago......

I have my doubts over this team. They have a tidy budget which if used correctly can move them forward. But is it being used correctly? No it isn't. What is Gubther Steiner going to do for example? Be as ineffective as he was in 2002?

Overall, I agree with Glen. In fact, red Bull will be lucky if there is any distance between themselves and Jordan. And if that happens, we'll probably see more management disasters with people being fired left, right and centre and the wrong people being brought in.

[Gt_R]

I agree with knowlesy.

[Kicking-back]

I find it strange that the general view here towards what is essentially a brand new team is so negative.

The same is happening over on the Midland Jordan thread.

Would people have preferred those teams to go under, leaving us with a 16-car grid?

I hope not!

[Knowlesy]

No, of course we'd prefer them to stay, but we'd prefer the teams to stay AND be well managed!

[Kicking-back]

But there's no indication yet that they won't be well managed

[Glen]

How on earth do you judge it to be anything like a brand new team? Although, if it were a brand new team they would have even less chance!

[joe rossi]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Then there is the continuing fracas over the second seat which should have been decided long ago......

Why should it have been decided long ago? RBR have two drivers under contract, and have given themselves the time they need to evaluate them properly. I don't see a problem with this. Williams are doing pretty much the same thing..both drivers will be with the team, just the roles are to be decided.

[BootsOntheSide]

Red Bull have the problem of choosing a third driver as well though, and they can't use Klien for this role due to his experience in 2004 (it would be ironic if Red Bull's insistance on Jaguar running him in 2004 comes back and haunts them by affecting their 2005 plans)

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

I find it strange that the general view here towards what is essentially a brand new team is so negative.

The same is happening over on the Midland Jordan thread.

Would people have preferred those teams to go under, leaving us with a 16-car grid?

I don't see any negativity in the Midland thread, the general consesus seems to be that it's a good move for Jordan to allow them to move forward.

People (I presume) are being negative towards RBR because they appear to have picked up where Ford left off in regards to the backoffice staff. Nobody wants 16 car grids, but equally I don't think people want more of the same - Jaguar/RBR under performing.

[Gt_R]

Indeed, i was very pleased that RB took over Jaguar... the fact that there is 20 cars instead of 16, or rather 3 Mclarens and 3 Ferraris, is good.

But that doesn't mean that RBR comes in doing everything right.

Like many have said, there is a lack of good direction, internal politics, instability in the core management group, and a few other problems which seem so familar (we've seen it in Jaguar too..havent we). There is nothing as yet that suggest otherwise that RBR will be much different from what Jaguar has to offer, other than a different name and a different livery.

BUT not all is lost. Losing P&P may not be wise....but there is potential in CH. He came with a reputation..however...it may turn out as a good move..or a totally screwed one. On the otherhand...signing DC may not cause much excitment..but it may jus give the team a little bit of stability/experience. Klien and Luizzi may turn out to be future talents.... and then there is the livery which looks good..

so...there are just too many question marks... there is this small potential that the team, with it's modest resources, must really exploit if they want to gain any credibility. In the short term..they won't be a threat to anybody...but they COULD if they really tried.

[hgmonaro]

Am I the only one who reads RBR as Rubens Barrichello Racing...

[Redlake27]

I think the team now has a more committed owner/backer than at any point in its history, since its inception as Stewart in 1997. 2005 may be a struggle due to the uncertainty of the last few months, but I think we will see an upward swing in this team in the next three years or so

[Super Tourer]

The only note of caution I would add is that the team is totally dependent on the will/interest of Dietrich Mateschitz. Self made Billionaires tend only to give direction and not take it. When it is their own money, I feel there is the temptation to want to put their mark on every aspect.

Don't forget that DM sold his stake in Sauber (allegedly) because Peter Sauber signed Kimi rather than DM's favourite at that time - Bernoldi. Time has shown the wisdom of Sauber's decision and contrasts the difference between someone who knows about motor sport and someone who doesn't.

The potential concern is that Red Bull needed to buy it's own team in order for DM/Red Bull to have total control, if it were pure marketing then why not stick with sponsoring Sauber or move to a higher profile team - BAR I'm sure would be only to happy to relieve DM of millions of dollars and already has the 'young and cool' Button in place as a marketing platform for them.

We've seen an opening gambit of curious statements - DC is not on our list/ we are glad to have DC on board, etc and removing (particularly) Pitchforth and Purnell was curious and we suspect that this was disagreements over drivers.

Whilst undoubtedly a successful formula team manager, Christian Horner has up to now been his own boss, how he will stand up to DM over issues during the year will be key to the team's success, otherwise the situation could deteriorate into another Gunther Schmid/ATS, a team which the multi millionaire owner ran as a matriarch.

However, there will be no lack of funds or ambition, but so much will depend on the relationship between DM and Horner, with apparently Marko also offering his counsel to DM.

The old saying that 'too many cooks spoil the broth' could be a feature of RBR.

[Dog Faced Boy]

To be Honest I would much rather see two teams sacrificed to make way for three car teams.Has RBR, Minardi and Jordan got a chance of mixing it with the big boy? No. Has a third Ferrari, Mclaren, BAR or Williams? Yes. There would be more cars cabable of mixing it and more exiting racing to boot.

As for RBR this year I fail to see how they can be as good as Jaguar last year. Uncertainty and too much change is not good in F1 and inveriably leads to reduced performance. Who is the least changed team in the paddock? Ferrari, apart from Barrichello replacing Irvine all the major staff have been in place for a 8 years. Even if they have put the right staff in place (which I doubt) the benefits wont bee seen for at least a year.