[Driver] Lewis Hamilton Champion

[wnut]

Originally Posted by sparkione

[/I]

Well, if my eyes are covered in glitter and rose-tinted specs then yours, I suspect, are in the back of your head! The UK has indeed produced loads of great F1 drivers – more than any other single country – including the ones you mention. But there is this tendency amongst British race enthusiasts to live in the past, refusing to entertain the possibility that some of today's stars are at least as good as, if not better, than their long-standing heroes.

Ultimately, comparing ‘greats’ from different eras is a pointless exercise. Was Nuvolari better than Senna? Fangio better than Schumacher? What is indisputable is that it takes a true great to win 62 GPs (a 30% strike rate against Stewart’s 25%, and equalling Schuey) and four WDCs. And there is undoubtedly still more to come. Bring it on, and give the man the credit he deserves.

The trouble starts when Fanboy ltd. start describing Hamilton as the greatest driver that ever lived, or a variation of that line.
This is followed by analysis that proves the claim is at best suspect, and then there is a lot of screaming and shouting about how Hamilton is not worshipped as some kind of deity.

Mercedes have won 63 of the last 79 grand prix.
Hamilton has won 40, his team mates have won 23.
When in the history of F1 has one team achieved an 80% win rate over four seasons?
Never!
Lewis is a very good and a deserving champion, but he has basically only beaten his team mate over three of the past four years, as you say comparisons are pointless, therefore people should refrain from the temptation of referring to Hamilton as the greatest ever driver.
Then people will not be tempted to point out the inaccurate use of absolute comparisons made by said Fanboys.

[Skam85]

Dare I open the can of worms by suggesting Schumacher/Ross Brawn/Rosberg deserve a lot more praise than they currently receive for building Merc into the powerhouse they now are....

[Skam85]

Anyway, while I think Hamilton & Vettel are effectively each other's equal, it is a lot easier in this day and age to make the most of a dominant car.

The reason being is that reliability plays such a massive factor.

The dominant cars (and most cars in general) are retiring a lot less - Hamilton has had zero retirements this year, a credit to him for not crashing but also a credit to his team for building such a strong car mechanically. As an example, only 15 of 26 drivers this year have recorded top-6 finishes - whereas in a dominant season such as 2002 for Ferrari, 18 of 24 (and every team) managed this.

My point is that while the current drivers are very very good, their elevated statistics are a by-product of the reliable F1 age we currently live in - and we cannot really compare them in an overall sense accurately. The only real barometers are their teammates, and Hamilton has had a decent enough edge over his teammates over the course of his career.

[F1Guy]

Emerson Fittipaldi has his say on Hamilton.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...-star-in-1970s

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Skam85

My point is that while the current drivers are very very good, their elevated statistics are a by-product of the reliable F1 age we currently live in - and we cannot really compare them in an overall sense accurately.

Probably why Fittipaldi didn't place him in his list of all time greats, and slightly dodged the question.
He described Hamilton as being 'difficult to beat', something backed up by anyone who has raced with or against him I would imagine.

The only thing we know for sure is that he his talent matched to his cars has allowed him to be hugely successful in the era he has raced.

[chunder]

Their stats are bigger only because they race so many times a year.

What would people think Prosts's Senna's, Clark's Stewarts stats would be if they were racing in 20 races a year in the 70's!

I would think very much the same or better.

But, far fewer of them would be alive today

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by chunder

Their stats are bigger only because they race so many times a year.

What would people think Prosts's Senna's, Clark's Stewarts stats would be if they were racing in 20 races a year in the 70's!

I would think very much the same or better.

But, far fewer of them would be alive today

But on the flip side look at how strong the driver line up is today compared with the 50s 60s 70s where at least half the gridwere essentially gentleman drivers. There was less competition for the greats back then

[steve_r]

Less than half the field finishing a grand prix used to be a common occurrence in the 80s and before. Even with todays massively over complicated engines, the finishing rate is much higher (unless you are Max Verstappen!)

Using stats to compare drivers from different eras is very difficult indeed.

[chunder]

I would say the driver standard has been pretty stable since the early 90's give or take boom periods.

The car standard overall has improved massively now, with the lack of massively low budget teams like Osella, Minardi et al.

I think the drivers have been a similar level for many years, just hampered by awful cars until the very recent times. Even if you go back to Hispania and Caterham really. Which wasn't long ego.

There are no sheds like that anymore

[Akrapovic]

I'd say its significantly above what it used to be. Right now we highlight drivers like Stroll as being poor and a pay driver, yet back in the mid-90s you had a whole host of drivers who were miles worse. Gone are the days of Taki Inoue, or even Yuji Ide.

Drivers now days get less testing and are expected to preform to a higher standard.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by wnut

The trouble starts when Fanboy ltd. start describing Hamilton as the greatest driver that ever lived, or a variation of that line.
This is followed by analysis that proves the claim is at best suspect, and then there is a lot of screaming and shouting about how Hamilton is not worshipped as some kind of deity.

I think the use of the term 'Fanboy' is inflammatory and unhelpful, as is 'Hater'.

That paragraph is as good a summation of the general problem of online debate as I've seen - the general problem being:

1. Someone's always online
2. Someone will always disagree
3. There's little nuance...
4. ...which means too many people adopt a black/white, 1/2, us/them, for/against, friend/enemy type approach.

Those of us who wear reasonable hats get drowned out by all the shouting, and then everyone who's left spends all their time moaning about how it isn't like the old days.

Anyway, Hamilton... I'm still pleased he won the WDC again. He and Mercedes have had basically the perfect season, as they did last year, to snag both pots. I'm just a bit worried that we're heading for another two years of them doing that again, which would be very Schumacher-esque and probably cause even more reasonable voices to disappear!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Less than half the field finishing a grand prix used to be a common occurrence in the 80s and before. Even with todays massively over complicated engines, the finishing rate is much higher (unless you are Max Verstappen!)

Using stats to compare drivers from different eras is very difficult indeed.

I liked the attritional aspect of F1, it was part of the race.

I personally think comparing different stats is nigh on impossible. Since the beginning of F1 back in the 1950s, the sport has evolved so much. For example there are now 20 races per season, which gives a driver a greater opportunity to win races and or claim pole position. As for the points system, it's completely different.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I liked the attritional aspect of F1, it was part of the race.

If anything, it's the main thing that has detracted from F1, somewhat ironically.....

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

If anything, it's the main thing that has detracted from F1, somewhat ironically.....

If they removed the rev restrictions, fuel restrictions and the limits on the number of PUs allowed, they would start blowing up again! Problem solved!

[F1Guy]

An interview with the champion. A good read I thought.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/42132327

[Skam85]

Lewie flagging that he may end up retiring in the next couple of years..

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...-in-f1-984187/

[S griffin]

I think we'll have to see on that one, depends if he thinks he's achieved all he wants to

[Adam43]

It isn’t easy being an F1 driver!

Look, buddy, you're not dealing with any dumb, two-bit, pedal-pumping moron with low hairlines, little piggy eyes and no conversation! I’m a caring, intelligent guy you'd probably really like if you met me socially. I don't go around gratuitously racing around and then brag about it in seedy driver bars. I go around gratuitously racing around, then I agonise about it afterwards to my girlfriend!

And I write songs! Though I haven't had any released yet. So I'd better warn ya, I'm in a mean mood!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Maybe he should quit F1 and do an Alonso and try to get the Triple Crown. That's two races a year, which would give him plenty of time to do those other things and still be involved in racing.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Maybe he should quit F1 and do an Alonso and try to get the Triple Crown. That's two races a year, which would give him plenty of time to do those other things and still be involved in racing.

Lewis could always go and try NASCAR.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

Lewis could always go and try NASCAR.

He could but NASCAR has a very long season and that might interfere with any future plans.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

He could but NASCAR has a very long season and that might interfere with any future plans.

Thought it would show Mr. 20 races per year how well off he is.

Wonder how many NASCAR mechanics have any sympathy for Hamilton and his terrible plight? Mercedes racing mechanics even.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Lewie flagging that he may end up retiring in the next couple of years..

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...-in-f1-984187/

If your starting to think out loud that it might be time to quit... it’s time to quit.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

If your starting to think out loud that it might be time to quit... it’s time to quit.

Richard

As Lemmy said: "If you think you're too old, to rock and roll, then you are.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

quite likely, which we'll accept gracefully.
But if there's an upset we'll probably never hear the end of it...

No upset mate.