Not happy with a station assignment.

TrueBlueFlyer · 24 Oct 2014, 04:32 (Ref:3467813)

What do you do when you are not happy with your station assignment?

Yes, I've expressed my unhappiness with the powers that be. And No, they cannot make changes at this time.

I am of course, talking about Circuit of the Americas and the event I'm not happy about is the upcoming F1. Most of you Brits would find my whinging unreasonable especially since the selection process for the Silverstone event is far more stringent. But when they're desperately short for people in Texas because more people are more interested in club level events than pro races, the ambiance looses its flair I think.

And lately my trips back to COTA have resulted in me working on the exact same stretch of the track. Turn 12 for F1 last year. Turn 13 for WEC this year and Turn 11C for F1 this year. There's like twenty other turns I'd rather be at, than 11C to be perfectly honest. I feel like I'm in a rut. When the track first opened I was thrilled to work Alpha for F1 or Turn 19 for Aussie V8's. But 11C is not something I am looking forward to.

Makes you wonder, especially since all three events are run by different flag chiefs. What would make each one think I'm best qualified to work that section of the track. Or maybe I'm there because I'm least qualified to be at the event in the first place, they're just filling empty spots... Who knows?

The questions in this post are rhetorical. I am venting. And it is sad. I used to have a hard time understanding marshals (especially those that have been doing this for a while) complaining about anything and everything. And now I'm turning into one of those people. They were right however. I'm sure there's something better I could do with my time, this time next year... without spending money traveling to a place that is going to make me disappointed.

katrina.kershaw.7 · 24 Oct 2014, 05:36 (Ref:3467824)

When you apply next maybe you could ask to be somewhere else, seems a shame as you're willing to travel over there that you're not happy with your posting.

DAVID PATERSON · 24 Oct 2014, 06:04 (Ref:3467835)

The last time I worked as a flag Marshall was at Bathurst for a four day event. When we signed on, the chief flag marshal asked if we would like to be on the same point each day or a different point each day.

I thought it was very nice that they cared enough to ask. I was happy to get my wish and I was in a different sector each day.

275 GTB-4 · 24 Oct 2014, 10:21 (Ref:3467899)

Is there a Big Chief of the Flag Chiefs that you can have a talk to? I can understand how individual Flag Chiefs may want to keep a team they are used to working with and/or know there good and bad traits...

roys1 · 24 Oct 2014, 13:04 (Ref:3467935)

When doing the allocation for the BGP if anyone has any specific request then I/we try to help providing it fits into the logistical part of the plans... I am surprised that you have had a bad experience that can't be sorted out.

sss · 24 Oct 2014, 18:56 (Ref:3468025)

What is so bad about that post?

It is a difficult one for any motorsport event, there are always going to be less desirable posts. How do you fill those if you have no volunteers?

TrueBlueFlyer · 25 Oct 2014, 00:50 (Ref:3468127)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sss

What is so bad about that post?

It is a difficult one for any motorsport event, there are always going to be less desirable posts. How do you fill those if you have no volunteers?

I don't know... probably as good as any other post.

I don't really have any specific requests if I were to be asked. (especially since for many events they actually do ask) My basic feeling is I'm open to any other post, provided it's something different... and no matter how good or bad it may be.

Jakester · 27 Oct 2014, 12:51 (Ref:3469052)

The unfortunate truth is that when placing over 200 corner workers and having 22+ mandated FIA flag stations, not every assignment can be exactly what is wanted, nor will every assignment be a plum. Over the long term it evens out. Best suggestion is when applying, list your previous/recent assignments/posts for the track or event to help flag chiefs. That can help in moving people around from previous locations.

The flag chiefs really do appreciate all the marshals that come out to play and do their best to balance out all the various factors. It's a tough jigsaw puzzle to piece together.

Mark Mitchell · 27 Oct 2014, 13:28 (Ref:3469061)

Russ, looking at the manning sheets, you're TSP on a really good blue flag point! Canada has the brilliant rotation of posts idea. Perhaps cota officials could consider that in the future?
Personally speaking, Bill and the sector Chiefs (Like the Kaiser Chiefs but not as good on guitar) have so far done a sterling job. Last year, Kathy asked for your "Requests" with allocations and although this hasn't been repeated this year, the F&C Chief has only been an email away!
Russ, the race is really just a small part of the weekend, enjoy the atomosphere and the company of the great folks on your post

Mark

racerkeke · 27 Oct 2014, 15:59 (Ref:3469112)

Normally I don't ask for specific stations at pro races, although I know the option exists. I know how hard it is to find the right balance of folks on a station, and sometimes an experienced person finds he or she is "taking one for the team". It must be extra hard at CotA because of the length of the track and the FIA requirements for line of sight between stations.

That said, I don't have a problem providing a history to the flag chief if I feel there's a trend occurring. But I always think twice: sometimes I get put at one part of a track a lot for a solid reason. That reason might be that I like that part of the track. Or that my specific set of skills is well-matched there -- for instance, if I'm really good at figuring out mechanicals or other minutae when I'm somewhere where I can get a good close look, or if I'm a good trainer for less-experienced folks.

But like Russ says, it can get a little same-y. So a simple, "hey, I've done X for the last three years. Could we possibly mix it up a bit this year?" can't hurt. If you don't pull that card too often the flag chief is more likely to listen. This year I was able to complete my dance card at Long Beach -- I've now been at every station at the track at least once -- just by asking for the last station I'd never been at. But the flag chief knows I've never asked for a specific assignment until now.

That said, Russ, go into the weekend with a light heart. You're at a racetrack and a lot of us aren't! Create a good time if one doesn't come naturally. And see you at Sebring.
keke

TrueBlueFlyer · 28 Oct 2014, 02:15 (Ref:3469262)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

Russ, looking at the manning sheets, you're TSP on a really good blue flag point!
Mark

I was told the same thing last year at Turn 12. Unfortunately someone placed the TSP controller right under the panel, which meant it was well away from the hard station and there was no cutout to stick my head out and actually blue flag. No matter how I tried to compromise (even went to an auto parts store to buy a mirror so I can press my face against the chainlink fence to peek with one eye, at the oncoming traffic. And to see the turn behind me using the mirror. It was a horrible set up. And if not for the people on station I would have had a miserable experience. I had a better time blue flagging the support races from the hard station with a traditional flag than using the TSP for F1 which is something I really enjoy doing.

I am going into the weekend with a positive outlook. Just find it weird to be placed into the same stretch of track time and again. Like Keke I typically don't request stations because I like to be surprised with a new experience... I'm definitely surprised with this assignment, but not because I'll have a new experience there.

Oh well...

MoMedic9019 · 28 Oct 2014, 03:17 (Ref:3469266)

I stopped marshalling for this reason and others...

Just grew tired of the politics and the "hey, your a warm body, go stand there" attitude..

Mark Noble · 28 Oct 2014, 13:12 (Ref:3469380)

You will end up getting round a variety of posts throughout the season and forthcoming seasons.

Sometimes you have to accept you will be on a 'quieter' post...all circuits have them and need people to staff them. And quite often, they are equally, if not more, enjoyable.

As you say, you should go with a positive outlook. At the end of the day, you are marshalling at a top line international event.

**Woolley** · 28 Oct 2014, 13:29 (Ref:3469385)

This is an interesting discussion. Having Chiefed for a hillclimb I can tell you post assignment is the hardest thing of all. I tried to note people's likes and dislikes and where possible if I had to ask someone to do something I knew they disliked (and I'd only do that where unavoidable) I tried to make it up on the next occasion with a free choice. Gratifyingly, most of them when given the choice didn't exercise it and left it up to me. The point was we all knew that everyone's needs and wishes were considered as much as possible.

On the other hand, people who regularly asked for only the best posts and turned their noses up at anything else got less consideration! Happily they were very few and far between and usually a compromise could be quickly arrived at.

For this reason, I almost never ask. Occasionally I like to be on post with someone I haven't seen in a while, but it's only ever an 'if you can accommodate that' type of request and on the basis that I don't actually care which post it is. And there are just a couple of posts I refuse because I don't feel safe there - and of course I'm quite happy to do one of the less interesting posts instead.

But if you do find a theme, then there's no harm in just stating that you've been on the same post a few times and if possible could you go anywhere else. A couple of years ago I found myself doing the same post at Silverstone 4 meetings on the trot. Which was curious, as they were organised by 4 different clubs each of whom had no idea where I'd been before! On the last occasion a polite request with reasons got me moved, which I appreciated.

racerkeke · 28 Oct 2014, 15:04 (Ref:3469407)

I don't think Russ is saying the station he's been given is necessarily a dull one (F1 can always surprise you, don't we all know!), it's just that he's been stationed on the same part of the track every single time he's been there. I can see his point, since there are, what, 24 stations?

The whole infrastructure issue (ability to do the job you're assigned) is a whole nother thing, I think, and one that the flag chief can't really remediate. Especially at CotA, where track personnel and track management are possibly on different planets....
keke

**Woolley** · 28 Oct 2014, 18:22 (Ref:3469459)

I realise that, just a general overview on my part rather than something specific.

stevebrown · 29 Oct 2014, 15:58 (Ref:3469742)

I remember when I marshalled the first few Goodwood Revivals. Except for one year at the dog-leg on Lavant, I kept getting No Name. Then I got Fordwater which I was fairly pleased with, yet my mate who was marshalling his first Revival got St Mary. Although I didn't complain, my mate got me on St Mary for the weekend.

Never had any grumbles with Silverstone. The first GP i did was at Copse exit. (at least there was some gravel to play in) and the following year was at Farm inside one of my favourite posts.

The worst circuit I found was Brands when a certain Chief Marshal was on duty I only got rubbish posts. There was one weekend when three of us got Post 6. we were busy and the PC told us we did a great job. The next day when said CM turned up we all got moved to post 1.

I can understand the frustration. You wonder what you're doing wrong but for big meetings there's not a lot you can do about it except just enjoy. I was always just pleased to be part of the first Revivals.

275 GTB-4 · 30 Oct 2014, 21:50 (Ref:3470076)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerkeke

The whole infrastructure issue (ability to do the job you're assigned) is a whole nother thing, I think, and one that the flag chief can't really remediate. Especially at CotA, where track personnel and track management are possibly on different planets....
keke

and that is an important aspect, you can get points populated by a champion team or a team of chumps and or champions.

That's when life can get interesting on point and for the safe conduct of the meeting!

JABWOA · 30 Oct 2014, 22:32 (Ref:3470091)

My local officials club initiated a log of all marshals and the position they worked at and when. Any chief allocating has access to the list to see who has worked where and when.

We had an issue many years ago when basically the entire crew were placed at the same corners for 3 race meetings in a row at a certain track. The chief allocating was different each time but magically came up with the same track manning. ****ed quite a few people off.

I feel for you true blue flyer, and I would keep politely asking the chief if something can be done. Working in same stretch of track 3 meetings in a row would dampen my experience. It's a big enough track to accommodate a reasonable request.

I've done 15 Albert Park Grand Prix and only worked 7 out of 18 posts available. 3 posts 3 times....

PVDA · 31 Oct 2014, 06:55 (Ref:3470174)

I would say "suck it up Princess" although that's a bit harsh.

We have to take the good with the bad.

We win some, we lose some.

Chiefs will allocate posts initially to those who they know can handle the expected workload of a post and fill it up with others to hopefully bring them up to the same standard.

I've worked every Aussie F1 GP at Adelaide and Albert Park since 1986 and have only had a couple of repeat visits, mind you each Sector Marshal has a core group that always follows them as they move around each year and the gaps filled by others which may explain a few of the regular repeaters.

pigs fly · 3 Nov 2014, 02:05 (Ref:3471036)

Well did you get a change of scenery Russ, meaning did they put you in a different post too the one's you already worked at.

TrueBlueFlyer · 5 Nov 2014, 00:44 (Ref:3471670)

I sucked it up and worked the assigned post.

As expected it wasn't good. I was frustrated looking down at the previous post (which I couldn't see except for only their light panel) and it was very disappointing to me to see them not utilizing it appropriately.

My post didn't have a porter john so it was either crossing a hot track or walking down to the previous post, which I did. And they had a ridiculous amount of visibility all around the turn leading up to them, so not sure why they didn't use the system. It ****ed me off discovering this.

I tried to understand the logic behind my assignment and during the race the flag chief came up and said he put me there for my experience. But taking that into consideration, there was only so much I could do... and ultimately I couldn't do magic. I would rather not flag, than guess and display the wrong flag. This is exactly what happened to me the previous year at the amazing turn 12 which is what everyone rants and raves about (this year I didn't see them use the light panel at all there).

To be honest I would have been ridiculously happier if only I got bumped to the previous station and switched with whomever was operating the light panel there. In my mind that would have been a logical choice. I would have blue flagged my heart out, and the person that I discovered hardly blue flags to begin with would have been in a perfect spot doing nothing at my post. But it wasn't meant to be.

Posting this and the more detailed description on my blog will probably result in some retaliation in the future. But like I said initially if I am going to spend the money that I don't really have and not enjoy myself, I might as well not do it at all.

275 GTB-4 · 5 Nov 2014, 04:16 (Ref:3471713)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueBlueFlyer

I sucked it up and worked the assigned post.

As expected it wasn't good. I was frustrated looking down at the previous post (which I couldn't see except for only their light panel) and it was very disappointing to me to see them not utilizing it appropriately.

My post didn't have a porter john so it was either crossing a hot track or walking down to the previous post, which I did. And they had a ridiculous amount of visibility all around the turn leading up to them, so not sure why they didn't use the system. It ****ed me off discovering this.

I tried to understand the logic behind my assignment and during the race the flag chief came up and said he put me there for my experience. But taking that into consideration, there was only so much I could do... and ultimately I couldn't do magic. I would rather not flag, than guess and display the wrong flag. This is exactly what happened to me the previous year at the amazing turn 12 which is what everyone rants and raves about (this year I didn't see them use the light panel at all there).

To be honest I would have been ridiculously happier if only I got bumped to the previous station and switched with whomever was operating the light panel there. In my mind that would have been a logical choice. I would have blue flagged my heart out, and the person that I discovered hardly blue flags to begin with would have been in a perfect spot doing nothing at my post. But it wasn't meant to be.

Posting this and the more detailed description on my blog will probably result in some retaliation in the future. But like I said initially if I am going to spend the money that I don't really have and not enjoy myself, I might as well not do it at all.

Some days are Diamonds...under those circumstances, and if I had Comms with Race Control, I would describe the part of the track I could not see and ask them or the point before/after to inform me when to wave or permission to "mirror" or relay a particular flag.

snoz wanger · 5 Nov 2014, 06:57 (Ref:3471737)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueBlueFlyer

I sucked it up and worked the assigned post.

As expected it wasn't good. I was frustrated looking down at the previous post (which I couldn't see except for only their light panel) and it was very disappointing to me to see them not utilizing it appropriately.

My post didn't have a porter john so it was either crossing a hot track or walking down to the previous post, which I did. And they had a ridiculous amount of visibility all around the turn leading up to them, so not sure why they didn't use the system. It ****ed me off discovering this.

I tried to understand the logic behind my assignment and during the race the flag chief came up and said he put me there for my experience. But taking that into consideration, there was only so much I could do... and ultimately I couldn't do magic. I would rather not flag, than guess and display the wrong flag. This is exactly what happened to me the previous year at the amazing turn 12 which is what everyone rants and raves about (this year I didn't see them use the light panel at all there).

To be honest I would have been ridiculously happier if only I got bumped to the previous station and switched with whomever was operating the light panel there. In my mind that would have been a logical choice. I would have blue flagged my heart out, and the person that I discovered hardly blue flags to begin with would have been in a perfect spot doing nothing at my post. But it wasn't meant to be.

Posting this and the more detailed description on my blog will probably result in some retaliation in the future. But like I said initially if I am going to spend the money that I don't really have and not enjoy myself, I might as well not do it at all.

Here goes..........i only Marshalled for five years and only managed one GP which was Silverstone 2012!!!!!....I think that particular weekend destroyed my love for marshalling and to be really honest i think that British Farmers would be prosecuted if they treated their animals the way that we were treated over the course of our stay there. I now follow Motorsport in a different way....i turn up when i like...i can walk to any corner i wish to...if it rains i can go inside and i can even nip to the pub at lunch if i like!.....its called Spectating and its really quite good....i miss my mates in orange and think they deserve to be treated a bit better than they are ....{rant over }..

numbersix · 5 Nov 2014, 09:03 (Ref:3471763)

Quote:

Originally Posted by snoz wanger

Here goes..........i only Marshalled for five years and only managed one GP which was Silverstone 2012!!!!!....I think that particular weekend destroyed my love for marshalling and to be really honest i think that British Farmers would be prosecuted if they treated their animals the way that we were treated over the course of our stay there. I now follow Motorsport in a different way....i turn up when i like...i can walk to any corner i wish to...if it rains i can go inside and i can even nip to the pub at lunch if i like!.....its called Spectating and its really quite good....i miss my mates in orange and think they deserve to be treated a bit better than they are ....{rant over }..

And yet ... you were always a pleasure to have on post. Keep smiling (as you always did) and if your probans call you from the airing cupboard – do not resist...