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Old 7 Jan 2017, 09:05 (Ref:3700764)   #16
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Theat to Motor Sport

In the landmark ‘Vnuk’ case, the European Court of Justice ruled in 2014 that the EU’s 2009 Motor Insurance Directive required insurance policies to cover all possible third-party accidents in all places and at all times. In some countries, including*the United Kingdom and Ireland, governments had interpreted the law as meaning*that it only applies to vehicles driven on public roads, however it is now clear that the*judgment means that national laws must be changed to ensure that all mechanically propelled vehicles are insured for third-party losses regardless of type of use, in all places, at any time. This applies to everything from Formula One racing cars, to mobility scooters, to antique trams and everything in-between. Industry experts have already claimed that the risks associated with providing insurance cover to all motorised vehicles mean that they would be prohibitively expensive to insure, thus effectively outlawing all motorsport activities across the United Kingdom.
HM Government opened a consultation on Wednesday 21st December with two clear options. First, to pursue the “Comprehensive option” which would involve changing UK motor insurance law to comply with the Motor Insurance Directive as interpreted in the Vnuk judgement. Second, the Government’s preferred “Amended Directive option” which would involve changing UK law on motor insurance to implement the Motor Insurance Directive as amended, should the European Commission pursue its proposal to amend it.
While the United Kingdom remains a member of the European Union, the UK is obligated to make this change. We, the undersigned petition HM Government through*the Secretary of State for Transport, The Rt. Hon. Chris Grayling, M.P., asking that*HM Government under no circumstances implements the 'Vnuk' judgement in a way that*encompasses vehicles involved in motor and motorcycle sport activities.


Mod note - merged into existing thread as not just a marshalling issue

Last edited by Asp; 7 Jan 2017 at 14:42.
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Old 7 Jan 2017, 12:22 (Ref:3700793)   #17
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Originally Posted by Asp View Post
Yes, a bit of a sensationalist headline perhaps, but I'm copying from the ACU (equivalent of the MSA but for two-wheels)

Personally, I don't think it is the ACU and other bodies who have produced that statement over-reacting in anyway. EU law requires third-party insurance for use of motorised vehicle and whilst the British Parliament interpreted it one way (Road Traffic Act insurance); the ECJ have now interpreted it differently.

Extending insurance obligations to cover things like mobility scooters I agree with - but it needs limitations such as motorsport which is very efficiently self-regulated.
That is not what te EU directive says and that is also not how the ECJ interpreted it. The problem in this situation is that your own UK government uses this EU directive as an excuse to propose something far more sweeping and farreaching than was ever intended by the EU.

If you actually read the Vnuk case you will see that has nothing to do with the hysteria that is displayed in some of the posts in this thread. In the Vnuk case Vnuk was run over by a tractor on his farm. The tractor had to be insured under the RTA and it was. But the Insurance company of the tractor tried to weasel out of its obligation to pay arguing that the accident did not happen on the public road. The ECJ did the only correct thing and ruled that is does not matter where it happened but how it happened. Think about it, if the ECJ had ruled the other way there would be no end of bickering about when, what and where the public road is.

So how would this judgement implicate motorracing. Well, most motorracing takes place on closed circuits with cars that under no reasonable circumstance would be required to have road insurance. As a result they would never be affected by this legislation.
For road-going race-cars like for example rally-cars it becomes slightly more complicated. The ECJ ruled that 'normal use' of the vehicle is always insured. Would racing be considered normal use? In my opinion the ECJ leaves enough room to seperate the 'racing' part from the normal, insured, 'traffic' part.
So for example when a rallycar slowly drives to the startline and runs someone over, that would be a normal traffic situation so insured. Would he then start the stage and run someone over, that would not be a normal use so not insured under this legislation. That is at least how I would read this judgement.

Of course, as with everything, all this requires a thoughtful consideration by your elected officials to make a well-balanced, clear and concise new law which addresses all these different aspects.
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Old 20 Jan 2017, 14:14 (Ref:3703847)   #18
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Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Here is the RAC MSA current position: https://www.msauk.org/assets/msavnukjan2017.pdf
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 06:35 (Ref:3704185)   #19
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Given the insurance industry's skills at turning a profit, won't someone pick up the baton and introduce a policy? It'll be expensive at first of course, but over time will just be another cost to be absorbed. One hopes the MSA will have it as a plan B.

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Old 27 Jan 2017, 10:18 (Ref:3705530)   #20
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SouthportFC Fan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSouthportFC Fan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSouthportFC Fan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I contacted my MP and got an extremely detailed and positive reply back. Basically, the government are looking at this ruling and are looking at changing the EU law.

They have published a consultation document stating that they are uncomfortable with the ruling. Presumably 'uncomfortable' means dislike it intensly and want it changed.

Don't know where things stand in the meantime....
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