Irresponsible Comment from Ray Evernham

[dj4monie]

It was just a blip from the NASCAR Show(s) on Sirius, but Ray said -

Commenting on the sale of Chrysler:

"Dodge has talked to all the teams and asked them if they wanted to remain with Dodge and Dodge will put additional resourses into the teams to help them be more competitive"

"NASCAR is the best investment in Automotive right now..."

As a fan of Cup, but now the Kool-Aid drinker of the sport, I found this comment without any merit and without any fact.

Has Everingham Motorsports done a fesibilty study on any other motorsport besides trying to make Erin Crocker competitive?

I bring this to the Sports Car Forum because I believe it would be more cost effective is Dodge dropped their support of Cup program and focused on building a built to order GT1 class Dodge Viper GTS-R Coupe.

This will not happen (you never say NEVER) as Chrysler is up for sale in a foolish move by Dr Z in the media. DC's hand has been forced and now they have to sell it as the stock price has sykrocketed on rumors of a sale.\

For as much as it cost to support 3 key teams in Cup and a total of 8 cars, I know SRT could design, build and sale race cars for a profit instead of sending money down the drain in Cup. Nextel Cup has NO direct sales on cars, trucks maybe, but NOT cars. Its time for trucks and SUV's to not be the marketing focus of American car makers.

California and the EPA want Co2 emissions reduced by 60% by 2019. That means we'll have to drive smaller fuel sipping cars, which is fine with me I have no desire or need to have a large truck or SUV for anything.

Chrysler would need to save money in re-tooling its factories to make these cars. Why not start now, drop Cup, save some money and pursue a more cost effective venture in motorsports?

Any comments?

[Adam43]

NASCAR gives so much more exposure in their key market. It makes much more sense. NASCAR cars have no direct link to road cars, the Viper would be closer to a road car in production, but how many Vipers are sold? Are they relevant to the Caliber?

It is about getting into as many homes as possible, not a direct link. NASCAR destroys Sportscar racing in that respect. They have done their homework here and it isn't surprising. Others have done this homework too. Toyota have joined NASCAR, they haven't entered Sportscar racing in the same manner. Ford ditched their F1 programme, but not their NASCAR programme.

For volume manufacturers NASCAR makes sense, as Ray Everingham says (responsibly?).

[Erki]

It's Evernham.
And Dodge has 10 full time cars from 4 teams: Ganassi 3, Evernham 3, Penske 2, Petty 2.

Ooooh I love to nitpick.

[Adam43]

The association which such teams is also a boon for Dodge. The Petty name is huge.

There is no doubt they could be competitive for less money, but that does not translate to it being more cost effective. Of course a motorsport programme in one category does not have to be mutually exclusive to another.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

NASCAR gives so much more exposure in their key market. It makes much more sense. NASCAR cars have no direct link to road cars, the Viper would be closer to a road car in production, but how many Vipers are sold? Are they relevant to the Caliber?

It is about getting into as many homes as possible, not a direct link. NASCAR destroys Sportscar racing in that respect. They have done their homework here and it isn't surprising. Others have done this homework too. Toyota have joined NASCAR, they haven't entered Sportscar racing in the same manner. Ford ditched their F1 programme, but not their NASCAR programme.

For volume manufacturers NASCAR makes sense, as Ray Everingham says (responsibly?).

WIN on SUNDAY, SELL on Monday. Get the DODGE name into as many house holds as possible. Get that DODGE name in FRONT of as many potential buyers as possible.

A direct car relation in NASCAR to the car sold on monday makes no difference. It is the DODGE name, not the Charger name.

[Craig]

"NASCAR is the best investment in Automotive right now..."

As a fan of Cup, but now the Kool-Aid drinker of the sport, I found this comment without any merit and without any fact.

Has Everingham Motorsports done a fesibilty study on any other motorsport besides trying to make Erin Crocker competitive?

No comment on the whole Erin Crocker affair... ooops.

Have you done a feasibility study on Nascar and the other forms of racing in order to back up your thoughts that Nascar doesn't provide the best return per buck spent?

[dj4monie]

Why should I?

I understand why NASCAR might be a better investment NOW, but I'm looking slightly down-road.

IMHO NASCAR can't get any higher, it has no where to go but DOWN and as you have seen in other sports, they go up and down when the fans are not impressed by the management anymore.

The trash-throwing fans at Talladega last week is a disgrace to Cup and motorsports in general. Suddenly its okay to be an arse-hole in the stands. Banding them from tickets sales is akin to screaming at your children for not taking out the trash.

The general moron that is a Cup fan has barely enough brains to fit into a Dixie Cup. That includes the fools that call Dave on Wind Tunnel. I'd actually think one or more of these fans are capable of murder if given the right situation.

Why they make the connect between what they see on track and the Dodge name is beyond me. That's like saying we buy more Tide just because it was on the side of Ricky Rudd's car, are people REALLY that foolish?

I watch the ALMS, I didn't go out an buy a JR watch, a Ferrari, Porsche or Corvette all of a sudden.

Most of these post sound like a defense of Ray's comments.

What I wanted a discussion on the value Dodge gets out of NASCAR. I'm not sure if they are getting as much value as they think.

Toyota wants to be a wholesome as Mom and Apple f'in pie. I'm on the LIBERAL western US, I don't need to be TOLD that is okay to buy Japanese cars just because Toyota has a few factories and employs a few thousand workers.

That's WHY they are involved with NASCAR, they want to sell more cars in Alabama..

[neiltbag]

I also live on the west coast but in my time as a tour manager for a rock band I got see 45 of the 50 states, and let me tell you, it's SCAREY out there, especially for someone originally from Europe like me.

You and I are capable of looking beyond the simple marketing level, of asking "why", and to be honest so are the folks at Dodge's marketing department. But for many of the folks in small midwestern or Southern towns that I've had the misfortune to travel through they see NASCAR as the epitome of performance, and even more importantly, of American-ness. Since there's more of those people than people like us (exhibit A - elected government from 1998-2006) Dodge have chosen to put their marketing dollars there, and they'll probably stay there until it ceases to be the best way to reach these people I'm talking about. I don't blame them, but I do agree with your general point that it's bad for the health of motorsport beyond NASCAR.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by neiltbag

I also live on the west coast but in my time as a tour manager for a rock band I got see 45 of the 50 states, and let me tell you, it's SCAREY out there, especially for someone originally from Europe like me.

You and I are capable of looking beyond the simple marketing level, of asking "why", and to be honest so are the folks at Dodge's marketing department. But for many of the folks in small midwestern or Southern towns that I've had the misfortune to travel through they see NASCAR as the epitome of performance, and even more importantly, of American-ness. Since there's more of those people than people like us (exhibit A - elected government from 1998-2006) Dodge have chosen to put their marketing dollars there, and they'll probably stay there until it ceases to be the best way to reach these people I'm talking about. I don't blame them, but I do agree with your general point that it's bad for the health of motorsport beyond NASCAR.

Driving for JB Hunt, I had the misfortune of spending a lot of time is middle and southern America and your comments don't surprise me one bit.

I've spoken to several "Down Home" NASCAR fans (a lot of them Truck Drivers) and they felt NASCAR was abandoning its fan base by moving events out of the Deep South, like at Rockingham.

Hello, you guys weren't showing up anymore. The last coupe of years Race #1 wasn't a sell out, so that gave that event to California. Darn those liberals!

Actually NASCAR has priced itself out of its original key market. Its no longer affordable to take your 4 kids and overweight wife to the track, so you sit at home with Direct TV and NASCAR Hot Pass, and bang the phone to Dave@Wind Tunnel when "Jr" gets the short end of anything that happens on or off track.

Ah Stereotyping, but as they say in every Stereotype is a grain of truth...

The trash throwing isn't new and I distinctly remember its causes at least one accident at a major super speedway and to one, not so popular driver at the time that happens to say "Boogity, Boogity Boogity"

Anywho

Dodge could sell more Vipers if it was beating the snot out of the Z06, but it isn't and I'm not sure if sells are slipping, but I see far more Z06's on the road than Vipers and yes I know cost has a lot to do with that, but Ford had NO problem selling all of its GT40 clones.

I just believe for the betterment of the sport, somebody should stop being a Lemming and go their own direction.

[AU N EGL]

Is there something wrong with the South ? ( southeastern US to our Europen freinds) Just because I drive a 1 ton Chevy doully pick-up, strap a Glock to my hip and have an AR16 with night vission on the gun rack when I go out into the woods to check the Stills, and tree growth does not mean I am not freindly. Just Kidding. Just very indendent.

Dodge sells lots and lots of pick up trucks do to NASCAR. Vipers are too expesive for the average american, but a Dodge 1500 Hemi pick up is not.

Lemings or not, Race rules dictate the cars. NASCAR cars are all looking the same expect for the the decals, GM DPs are getting closer and close too.

Selling more Vipers is not the answer. Besides one major auto manufactor strongly hinted at GETTING out of NASCAR at the end of 2007. Could it be Dodge?

[Adam43]

dj4monie, your posting has turned into a rant about the South. This isn't a place for that, especially in that tone or with some of that langauge.

Your original post seemed to want to discuss the merits of a manufacturer racing in NASCAR or Sportscar racing.

Some of us have suggested that most evidence suggests NASCAR is a better return than Sportscar racing. Your logic that NASCAR is so much better now, but not in the future is not supported by any real evidence that the situation will reverse with Sportscar racing. Although you make your distate for NASCAR known. Fine, when it changes the manufacturers may move.

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Most of these post sound like a defense of Ray's comments.

Perhaps because they think there is some sense in what he says. Why do you seem to use the word defense as a bad thing? I don't really know much about the cat, but I find him saying that NASCAR offers a better return highly realistic.

I just believe for the betterment of the sport, somebody should stop being a Lemming and go their own direction.

Fine, but your post was about cost effectiveness of Sportscar racing. I agree that manufacturers should race in Sportscar racing, although not for cost effective reasons!

Why should I?

No reason why you should, but if you present views that are unsupported by any research then you have to accept that others may disagree and side with those that have (probably ) looked into the situation.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Why should I?

I understand why NASCAR might be a better investment NOW, but I'm looking slightly down-road.

IMHO NASCAR can't get any higher, it has no where to go but DOWN and as you have seen in other sports, they go up and down when the fans are not impressed by the management anymore.

Precisely - In Your Humble Opinion. Where are the facts to support it, seeing you're putting your views out there as fact?

(My emphasis)

The trash-throwing fans at Talladega last week is a disgrace to Cup and motorsports in general. Suddenly its okay to be an arse-hole in the stands. Banding them from tickets sales is akin to screaming at your children for not taking out the trash.

I agree, I was there and they were way out of order.

Why they make the connect between what they see on track and the Dodge name is beyond me. That's like saying we buy more Tide just because it was on the side of Ricky Rudd's car, are people REALLY that foolish?

If people want to see it as foolish then, yes, but it is what marketing is all about. The moment people start buying Dodge trucks or SUVs because a Viper is winning in ALMS (which hardly anyone has heard of, let alone watches) then they will put their marketing budget into that.

I just believe for the betterment of the sport, somebody should stop being a Lemming and go their own direction.

Ah, the voice of an enthusiast, not someone in the marketing department.

[redshoes]

Well said Adam and Craig. I'm no NASCAR fan but it's difficult to argue a case against when you look at the numbers.

Originally Posted by dj4monie

For as much as it cost to support 3 key teams in Cup and a total of 8 cars, I know SRT could design, build and sale race cars or a profit instead of sending money down the drain in Cup.

However much you are a fan of Sportscar racing the simple fact is that it's niche market stuff, especially in comparison to NASCAR. Make a few thousand $ building and selling race cars or get your brand seen by (tens of) millions of viewers? Try getting that one past the boys in marketing.

The trash-throwing fans at Talladega last week is a disgrace to Cup and motorsports in general. Suddenly its okay to be an arse-hole in the stands. Banding them from tickets sales is akin to screaming at your children for not taking out the trash.

Disgraceful it's true, but hardly a first. Even Le Mans has it's share of beer-fueled idiots to contend with. Thankful it's a small minority.

They won't admit it in public but I bet NASCAR are quietly pleased. Gives them a chance to trumpet how committed their fans are, and provides yet more column inches. There's no such thing as bad publicity.

Why they make the connect between what they see on track and the Dodge name is beyond me. That's like saying we buy more Tide just because it was on the side of Ricky Rudd's car, are people REALLY that foolish?

It's about brand awareness. People don't buy a washing powder specifically because it's on side of someone's car, they buy it because it is a brand they recognise, and the reason they recognise it is because it's been on the side of someone's car.

California and the EPA want Co2 emissions reduced by 60% by 2019. That means we'll have to drive smaller fuel sipping cars, which is fine with me I have no desire or need to have a large truck or SUV for anything.

Chrysler would need to save money in re-tooling its factories to make these cars. Why not start now, drop Cup, save some money and pursue a more cost effective venture in motorsports?

If the future is about eco-friendly micro-cars, what relevance is a GT/Sportscar program, or indeed any motorsports program for that matter?

[Purist]

Red, motorsport is an exercise of efficiency, which might be kind of applicable if you're trying to make your road cars more efficient.

I bet you could make a dent in exposure if Audi, GM, and/or Chrysler (if they joined) sponsored adverts during CSI: Miami, Numbers, Law & Order, and Heroes (i.e. primetime programming) the week before the race broadcast. Do several primetime spots during the preceding week on the broadcasting network, and you sure as heck should see some impact in viewership, which should entice further sponsors and manufacturers to take a look.

You never know until you take a shot. Not to mention, NASCAR ratings have been reported down the past couple years. Someone has to take that big step to up the exposure of sportscar. Between those seven manufacturers in ALMS (Chevrolet, Audi, Mazda, Panoz, Porsche, Acura, and Ferrari) there's more than enough capital to "make" the ALMS' presence just as inescapable as NASCAR's, which would make the series a VERY worthwhile investment if someone were to step up and do what is necessary.

[Craig]

Sorry, not in a million years. If they took that money you want to spend on exposure and use it to back the number of cars in the field for a few years, it might stand a chance of being a viable series. I was in Houston a couple of weeks ago and the field was absolutely pathetic. What was it? 3 cars in LMP1 and 2 in GT1? Those are the two headline classes... I really don't like a lot about Nascar, compared to the purer sport of sportscar racing, but there's absolutely no comparison whatever in terms of how succesful the two series are.

[Purist]

Except Craig, do you honestly expect that large influx of cars to come without the increased exposure? Those cars will needs sponsors. The people already involved will have to make the first move to get others to come aboard and provide support for those cars.

[JHamilton]

What Evernham said is correct. As Montgomery Burns once said, "Let the fools have their tar-tar sauce." I think many Nascar fans will get bored with the sport, like I did, and move on. However, sports car racing will always niche market.

Oh, and I was born and raised in the deep South. As a reminder to some folks, it is the home to sports car racing in the US.

[Craig]

No, Purist, which is why Evernham's comments are spot on. Sadly, whilst I do enjoy the odd bit of sportscar racing, "NASCAR is the best investment in Automotive right now..."

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

What Evernham said is correct. As Montgomery Burns once said, "Let the fools have their tar-tar sauce." I think many Nascar fans will get bored with the sport, like I did, and move on. However, sports car racing will always niche market.

Oh, and I was born and raised in the deep South. As a reminder to some folks, it is the home to sports car racing in the US.

While Sebring was the first post WW2 permanent Road Course and one of the first Road Races. The Watkins Glen(NY) race started in 1948,
Pebble Beach Road Race(Ca.)now Laguna Seca (Monterey Sports Car Championship) started in mid 1950 then Sebring on New Years Eve of 1950. The first Road race in the U.S was the Vanderbilt Cup Starting in 1904 on an inaugural course of 30.24 miles!

L.P.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

While Sebring was the first post WW2 permanent Road Course and one of the first Road Races. The Watkins Glen(NY) race started in 1948,
Pebble Beach Road Race(Ca.)now Laguna Seca (Monterey Sports Car Championship) started in mid 1950 then Sebring on New Years Eve of 1950. The first Road race in the U.S was the Vanderbilt Cup Starting in 1904 on an inaugural course of 30.24 miles!

L.P.

Yes sir, you are correct. I should have said "current home".

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Oh, and I was born and raised in the deep South. As a reminder to some folks, it is the home to sports car racing in the US.

The deep south has many many sports car circuits.

Sebring
Road Atlanta
VIRginia Motorsports Park
Carolina Motor Sports Park
Barber Motorsports Park
Moroso ( FL)
Another in FL that escapes me at the moment.
Reobling Road ( GA )
No Problem Race Way ( LA )
Lowes MotorSpeedway ( roval ) in North Carolina
North Carolina Motorspeedway ( Rockingham NC)
Atlanta Motorspeedway ( roval )
Nashville Motorspeedway ( roval )
Summit Point & Shannandoha (WV )
Hallet Motorspeedway ( OK )
Tellidaga Motorsports park ( differnt then the high bank tri-oval for NASCAR)
6 or 7 in TX alone

Under Construction

2 more in my state of North Carolina- one for altenative fuel use only
2 more Georgia
1 in Alabama ( roval )
1 in Virgina
1 in Tennessee

So the Southern USA has many many road corses.

[Purist]

Oklahoma is not in the South; Texas is closer, but not like Louisiana or the other states in the Southeast.

I don't really count the rovals, and most of the others are just club circuits. Texas only has three active, permanent courses I am aware of: Texas Motor Speedway, Texas World Speedway, and Motorsports Ranch Houston. Rattlesnake Raceway and Dallas International Raceway are both defunct, and the Houston Superspeedway proposal was canned. The only major permanent, natural-terrain road courses in the South are Virginia International Raceway, Road Atlanta, and Sebring. Summit Point has fallen into obscurity, and only hosted the GTs back during IMSA GTP. I don't believe Roebling Road Course is allowed to have spectator events. Finally, Barber was really just designed as a club circuit and bike track.

[Purist]

Craig, I was responding to your if statement. My comment had nothing to do with current investment viability, but on the reality that someone already involved in motorsport has to put the bucks in to increase the ALMS' exposure if you want those additional cars to materialize.

You put any real fraction as many ads as NASCAR has on network tv, but for sportscar, and people won't be able to help but notice. However, someone has to have the guts to take the step of doing the serious promotional work.

[AU N EGL]

Summit Point, Roebling Road, and Barber all have SCCA and NASA races. Barber also has Grand AM races along with bike races and lots of club events.

Oh I forgot Dayton Speedway roval, which has the Daytona 24 hour, SCCA and occationally a NASA race. and Homestead FL, roval with SCCA, NASA, and CART, & GA races.

I do agree, Sebring, Road Atlanta, VIR ( my home track ) and better Southern tracks