Michael Past It?/ If Schummi in Renault (merged)

**Peter Mallett** · 10 May 2005, 04:09 (Ref:1297195)

Eddie Irvine says Michael is past it in the Daily Telegraph

JohnSSC · 10 May 2005, 04:18 (Ref:1297198)

Well, there you have: Expert Commentary by someone so keen, that he watched Alonso while driving back to the pits and deemed him worthy of : "Wow!"

Methinks that Mr. Irvine misses the limelight and since focus on his own career would find it somewhat lacking in results, he chooses to slag off Michael.

Did he mention Schumi Lite having more race wins than He Himself does? What is his take on that, I wonder?

And there you are: It took E. Irvine to get me to say something nice about Schumi Lite!

thejester · 10 May 2005, 04:31 (Ref:1297205)

Well...I guess Eddie needs the publicity.

Big talk on Imola! "All he had to do was pass him on the inside" duh, really??

"Most boring world champion ever" ? Maybe Michael should've thumped him one like Ayrton

I can taste the sourness of those grapes from here Ed.

Seriously though, as I imagine Mr Mallet hasn't started this thread to discuss Irvine's big mouth, is MSC 'past it'?

Not in my opinion, as Imola proved. Sure the car had an advantage, but those kind of lap times...I don't think just any old F1 pilote could've pulled them out. As for not overtaking Alonso...what more did Eddie expect him to do?
...oh, right, pass him on the inside.

I think the more pressing concern is Michael getting 'over it'.
He has absolutely nothing more to prove in F1, and I saw something in his body language when he got out of the car in Barcelona...sort of a, blegh, who cares, I'm 7xchamp, whatever, attitude. No throwing steering wheels.
If the championship falls beyond his reach this season for no fault of his own, I think he'll struggle to motivate himself. He'll need some on track fireworks, wheel to wheel with JPM for example to fire him up again, even if it's for podiums rather than wins.

Eddie's 'new guard' haven't beaten him yet. Ferrari and Bridgestone are getting beaten byt their competition.

Kicking-back · 10 May 2005, 05:37 (Ref:1297228)

Predictably people go and attack Eddie!

He doesn't need publicity - he's a rich man, he can pick and choose what he does - and he's responded to a question.

Just because his opinion is different to yours - and Eddie does have a dry humour which comes over better in person than in print - does not mean he's necessarily wrong.

thejester · 10 May 2005, 05:47 (Ref:1297236)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Predictably people go and attack Eddie!
.

He started it

Kicking-back · 10 May 2005, 05:48 (Ref:1297238)

He made a comment - people should attack that if they wish, but they prefer to attack him.

thejester · 10 May 2005, 06:10 (Ref:1297246)

Look, I think 'attack' is a strong word to use in this case.

Please have a sense of humour, K-B. Peharps my dry wit translates to print as well as Eddie's.

I do think he used the platform he had to attack and ridicule Michael Schumacher.
IMHO there's a strong case to be made for sour grapes being involved.
I did say he had a big mouth. Maybe too strong a term, edit: he seems to eschew self censorship. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it could get him into trouble.
'he needs the publicity'...maybe I should've said 'attention'. Again, a semi-serious observation.

As far as suggesting Michael hit him goes, I was not trying to incite violence but trying to humourously suggest that might be make him seem less boring to Eddie.

I appreciate you reminding me that Eddie's comments themselves may have been made in jest and beat up a bit by the paper. It's true, the 'world's most boring' call did make me smile. (Wait till Kimi is WDC!)

However I thought his criticism of Michael's Imola driving and suggesting he might be past it i.e. too old and slow to be a top driver, were over the top and uncalled for.

If his opinion is different than mine I'm afraid that IN MY OPINION he is wrong!

BUT, let me say unequivocally that I appreciate Eddie's candour and him expressing his views. It's just a provocative set of statements.

Please have another look at my first post K-B. Read the first half as half-joking reaction, and the second half (after 'but seriously' )
as my more considered response to the comments themselves.

Cheers
the jester

climb · 10 May 2005, 06:26 (Ref:1297249)

It's not the first time someone says Michael's outta here, and probably not the first time for Eddie himself

andy_b · 10 May 2005, 07:39 (Ref:1297280)

Eddie didnt watch the Imola race then

Gt_R · 10 May 2005, 08:00 (Ref:1297292)

K-B seems grumpy recently..i had thought Mclaren's dominating win would have eased that irritation abit!

Com'on, if Irvine had started to praise Michael or criticise another driver (ie JV, Webber) or team (ie Mclaren, Renault)... then the likes of those who dislike Michael would simply attack him in turn. it's a "fair world".

But honestly, as an admirer of Michael's skills, and having followed it for so long, i can only say that there is some part truth in Michael being "past it".

Has Michael lost his motivation? Not one bit.

Is Michael a bad driver? Holly, but Imola showed that he is still the best F1 driver out there.... and a better rounder than the upcoming Alonsos and Kimis.

Michael is still the standard of the field. But one thing i seriously thought about. Is this the Michael at his peak? That i think is a debatable question. Michael-fans may deny it, it's quite difficult to see and judge. But i honestly think that Michael has already peaked at his best, and is now not at the sharpest that he has ever been.

Does this mean he should move out and that there's somebody better? No...it's just natural. A driver over time inevitably loses some of his edge, starts to be bogged by reflexes, thinking, and behavoir which change with age. He may find his fitness just 95% of what his peak is, his reflexes 0.1s slower etc etc. You cant change these things... there's a good reason why Stewarts and Mosses don't drive F1 cars anymore...

grandprixdiary · 10 May 2005, 08:08 (Ref:1297299)

This comment would be by Eddie 'I haven't been in the news for a bit' Irvine would it ? Michael isn't past it, his tyres are though...

Rob

**John Turner** · 10 May 2005, 08:13 (Ref:1297300)

Eddie Irvine's opinions should always be taken with a pinch of salt. Afterall, this is the man who some years ago described himself as 'the second best driver on the grid' (after Michael), a view that very few shared.

There have been a few drivers, like Graham Hill, who continued to race when they were past it, because they simply loved doing it, and Michael certainly does enjoy his motor racing, but it is doubtful whether he will hang on once he feels he cannot remain motivated and competitive. However, to describe the current World Champion and the man who drove a blinder at Imola as 'past it', has to be a joke and typical of Eddie. If he isn't joking, he is just simply wrong, and not for the first time! I say that, even if MS decides to retire at the end of the season.

Kicking-back · 10 May 2005, 08:20 (Ref:1297308)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gt_R

K-B seems grumpy recently..i had thought Mclaren's dominating win would have eased that irritation abit!

Don't worry, I'm fine

I just don't like the internet trend of people being unable to accept that there are different opinions.

Some of my favourite posters on ten-tenths are people who I disagree with completely - it's good to have discussion.

But some people seem to think that if someone says something they don't agree with, that makes the person making the original comment fair game to attack, rather than debating the merit of their comment.

Eddie Irvine has made a comment about Michael Schumacher. How good a driver or otherwise Eddie was is largely irrelevant to that!

to all

**Adam43** · 10 May 2005, 08:34 (Ref:1297319)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

He made a comment - people should attack that if they wish, but they prefer to attack him.

OK, the comment is wrong. Michael has driven brilliantly in, at least, the last couple of GP.

D.R.T. · 10 May 2005, 09:03 (Ref:1297344)

I think a comment closer to, "are Ferrari past it" might have been closer to the mark. As Michael is doing the best he can with what he's currently got.

**John Turner** · 10 May 2005, 09:07 (Ref:1297346)

Yes, good point. No team stays at the top of its game forever.

ASCII Man · 10 May 2005, 09:34 (Ref:1297361)

Michael is past it, somewhat.. not much though.
Ferrari/Bridgestone are waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy past it IMO.

Btw, I didn't notice anything in that article about Eddie explicitly stating that TGF is past it, he only said 'MAYBE he's GETTING past it'...
I'm surprised that someone like Peter picked up on it...

Jordi · 10 May 2005, 09:50 (Ref:1297366)

If Michael is past it well, Bridgestone are sure helping him!

(As well as they helped him to titles in the past)

Marbot · 10 May 2005, 10:03 (Ref:1297371)

If TGF is past it,where does that leave RB!

I cannot think where he gets his motivation from.When there is talk of who will be WDC rarely does he get a mention.If TGF were to retire surely it would be the end of RB also.

IMO TGF will retire this year.Unless Ferrari turn things around i think this will happen.

Ferrari now need a second driver to push TGF along a bit.For years he's been at the front of the queue,now he's playing catch-up.And perhaps a little internal competition is what's needed to get Ferrari on top again.Not to mention getting that second Ferrari in the points more often.RB had a good first race,but since then, even allowing for car failures,he has not looked good.When the car comes good (which it will) Ferrari need 2 cars in the points not just 1.

Barbarian · 10 May 2005, 10:03 (Ref:1297372)

I think the only thing Schumacher needs to win is a set of Michelin tyres.
With that, this Ferrari would be as quick as any other team, if not quicker.
As for Irvine... how can a guy that never "was there" know who "past it" or not?
Schumacher with 40 will still be a lot quicker than Irvine ever was so why bother with what Irvine thinks.

JohnSSC · 10 May 2005, 10:15 (Ref:1297377)

Well I wasn't expecting a sort of Spanish Inquisition!

I am going to have to use smilies and such more as my comments re: "The Swerve" were tongue-in-cheek or whatever you call them whilst typing.

I have posted numerous times that imho, Michael is nowhere near "past it." His performances recently and his accomplishments speak very loudly for themselves.

reason edited: to add humorous smileies to emphasize humor!

BootsOntheSide · 10 May 2005, 10:18 (Ref:1297378)

As far as the tyre issue is concerned, remember that at Imola (the onyl time Michael has been competitive with the top Michelin teams), Alonso's fastest lap wa sonly a second up on Karthikeyan's on the top non-Ferrari Bridgestone car. In other words, even with a clear tyre advantage Michael couldn't ultimately overtake Alonso, and Rubens was nowhere (jsut as he has been when Michelin have had the advantage).

Michael Schumaher might be past it. The key word is 'might'. If expressing an opinion like that opens you up to personal attacks, it's a sad day for free speech. Eddie's opinion is highly valuable - how many tenthers worked with Michael for 4 years? As for the criticism of Eddie from an intellectual perspective, how many tenthers have made a fortune ion business (before he reached F1).

**Peter Mallett** · 10 May 2005, 10:26 (Ref:1297381)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

Btw, I didn't notice anything in that article about Eddie explicitly stating that TGF is past it, he only said 'MAYBE he's GETTING past it'...
I'm surprised that someone like Peter picked up on it...

Good catch. Its why I put the question mark in the title.

MarkG · 10 May 2005, 10:28 (Ref:1297382)

No, Michael is not past it, unlike Eddie Irvine.

ASCII Man · 10 May 2005, 10:36 (Ref:1297389)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Eddie Irvine says Michael is past it in the Daily Telegraph

Oh, what do we have here?

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