Best of the current era? - Page 3

wnut · 21 Jul 2011, 10:04 (Ref:2929341)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

Because he had a problem with McLaren playing favourites...? Because instead of getting mad he got even...? Purely as a racing driver, I just don't see any weaknesses with Alonso... he's fast in every situation, he's smart, his racecraft is examplary and he refuses to give in...

I pretty much agree with you, just couldn't resist the wind up.

I would grant Vettel equal status for the record though, then the rest.

mac · 21 Jul 2011, 10:13 (Ref:2929347)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

I would grant Vettel equal status for the record though, then the rest.

I think Vettel is prone to feeling the pressure - and making mistakes... As Webber pulled up on him in Silverstone, my feeling was that the team asked him to "maintain the gap" because they were at least as worried about Vettel making a mistake in defending his position (as his pride got the better of him), as they were in Webber being unsuccessful in making a passing move...

wnut · 21 Jul 2011, 10:18 (Ref:2929349)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

I think Vettel is prone to feeling the pressure - and making mistakes... As Webber pulled up on him in Silverstone, my feeling was that the team asked him to "maintain the gap" because they were at least as worried about Vettel making a mistake in defending his position (as his pride got the better of him), as they were in Webber being unsuccessful in making a passing move...

Webber was pretty insistant that he was ignoring the team orders and just plain couldn't catch him.

We shall just have to watch and see how he handles future pressure situations.

Between Alonso and Ferrari they left a bit to be desired when it really counted last year.

mac · 21 Jul 2011, 10:21 (Ref:2929352)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Webber was pretty insistant that he was ignoring the team orders and just plain couldn't catch him.

Has nothing to do with why the request was made... which was my point...

**chunterer** · 21 Jul 2011, 10:24 (Ref:2929354)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Ask Ron Dennis why Alonso isn't the complete package!

Yeah but whilst your on, also ask Ronzo why he favoured a rookie over a double WDC, losing the title as a result.

Can you imagine Senna or Prost having accepted the same circumstances any differently?

One could also ask him why he continued to back Kimi in 2005-2006, when it was already well known, he was off to Ferrari, practically ruining the F1 career of his other driver.

Oooh bad, waaay OT from me, soory folks!!

wnut · 21 Jul 2011, 10:42 (Ref:2929364)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yeah but whilst your on, also ask Ronzo why he favoured a rookie over a double WDC, losing the title as a result.

Can you imagine Senna or Prost having accepted the same circumstances any differently?

One could also ask him why he continued to back Kimi in 2005-2006, when it was already well known, he was off to Ferrari, practically ruining the F1 career of his other driver.

Oooh bad, waaay OT from me, soory folks!!

No argument here.
So why did Ronzo hate him enough initially to favour the rookie ....
Prost certainly gave the FIA and Mr Balestre the full song and dance routine, even had an official from the FIA in the pit!!!

Jaun to be honest imo was not on Kimi's pace over a race, but that just make the Alonso rookie decision even more strange!
Guess he was looking at the pot of gold available to him for a young British WDC. That worked out well!

Mr V · 21 Jul 2011, 12:38 (Ref:2929409)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

I think Vettel is prone to feeling the pressure - and making mistakes...

One half spin, at Canada and only dropping 24 of a possible 225 points, prone to feeling the pressure and making mistakes? Your a hard taskmaster my friend

Are we saying that Fernando has never made a mistake or felt pressure either?

mac · 21 Jul 2011, 12:46 (Ref:2929413)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

One half spin, at Canada and only dropping 24 of a possible 225 points, prone to feeling the pressure and making mistakes? Your a hard taskmaster my friend

I think that is more an indication of the lack of genuine pressure he has been under in races this season... I can recall three times when he has been under significant pressure - once he made a mistake in Canada, another time his team called off Webber (even though Webber initially ignored the request). The only other times I can recall him being under any sort of real pressure were Spain and China.

I also think his wheel-to-wheel temperament and decision-making is in no way a match for that of Alonso... I'm not saying that it is necassarily bad - just that I don't think it is at Alonso's level.

**Born Racer** · 21 Jul 2011, 16:49 (Ref:2929481)

Quote:

Originally Posted by herowassenna

the team favouring Hamilton over Alonso from pretty early on.
Mention was made of Dennis having to pacify Alonso at Bahrain, the 3rd GP of the season.

Do you remember what was said? It was probably Andrew Benson; he's a big Alonso fan. Maybe I should do a search to find out. I just never saw any of this favouritism other than Ron's Freudian slip "We weren't racing Kimi: we were basically racing Alonso", which was after it all kicked off and showed Ron's dislike at that point for Fernando rather than any favouritism within the team operations.

In Monaco, Alonso was the one favoured, as they wouldn't let Hamilton try to overtake and Alonso got the best strategy on pitstops (as he led into Turn 1).

Basically, in my view, Alonso used to throw his toys out the pram, but I'm wondering whether quite simply, he has just matured this year. What do people think? He seems to have a more balanced outlook on life and having not-so-great championship chances. He is (amazingly) still only in his late 20s (in fact, he turns 30 in just over a week), so it's possible he has just become a more mature man. We saw signs of immaturity in Abu Dhabi though at the end, but you may have to allow him that particular poor show.

danoli · 21 Jul 2011, 20:00 (Ref:2929554)

I'd say Alonso as the best driver, judging by his clear superiority over Felipe Massa, who is also a very good driver.
It is hard to say who has better outright pace between Vettel and Hamilton. Vettel has outqualified Webber more than Hamilton has outqualified Button, but Button is clearly a better driver than Webber, so it is hard to read much from that.

mac · 21 Jul 2011, 23:25 (Ref:2929645)

Quote:

Originally Posted by danoli

but Button is clearly a better driver than Webber, so it is hard to read much from that.

Clearly? I'd put them pretty much equal...

blaffer · 24 Jul 2011, 17:34 (Ref:2930453)

After today's race in Germany, I believe Hamilton and Alonso are the best of the current era. I would even rate them higher than Schumacher in his best years. Hamilton and Alonso remind me of the likes of Peterson, Villeneuve, Prost, ...

ChrisPage · 24 Jul 2011, 18:19 (Ref:2930471)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

Because he had a problem with McLaren playing favourites...? Because instead of getting mad he got even...? Purely as a racing driver, I just don't see any weaknesses with Alonso... he's fast in every situation, he's smart, his racecraft is examplary and he refuses to give in...

What part of being a double world champion and getting beaten by a rookie qualifies as 'getting even'? I suppose technically they finished on an 'even' number of points!

I think that season set a clear trend in F1 which I hope lasts a long time - Hamilton vs Alonso. Not a reminder of the past - a great new rivalry between two great drivers who both have their different characteristics but who I think its hard to seperate overall.

Vettel is great, supremly quick, and now proving not that he can't race but that he's clever enough to know when and where to race and when to consolidate. Still a gap between Hamilonso (

) and him though!

Other drivers I currently think could be great and need a good car to really see what they've got - Kubica & Kobayashi. Potentially Di Resta, but he's too new to be able to tell.

If being a nice guy made you a winner Chandhok would be clear at the top, but sadly I don't think it quite works out like that...

wnut · 27 Jul 2011, 05:44 (Ref:2931627)

Di Resta is 6 - 4 up on Kobayashi in quali and has outqualified him in the last four races. Not such flash race results yet, but the speed would seem to be there.

Mr V · 27 Jul 2011, 10:05 (Ref:2931683)

You can't compare Di Resta and Koby tho, they have different machinery.

paddy · 27 Jul 2011, 11:18 (Ref:2931716)

I think Hamilton is the best, followed by Alonso and then perhaps Vettel. I'd put Button as best of the rest. You have to remember as well that there are clear team preferences at Ferrari and Red Bull which aid Alonso and Vettel whereas it's much more open at MacLaren. It will be interesting to see who comes through from the young guys to challenge in the next couple of years. The only problem being that Ferrari's second car is exactly that for the period of Alonso's contract and I would imagine you could say the same thing re Red Bull whilst Vettel is there.

Mr V · 27 Jul 2011, 13:48 (Ref:2931771)

Quote:

Originally Posted by paddy

and I would imagine you could say the same thing re Red Bull whilst Vettel is there.

Yet Mark beat Seb last weekend??

Logic x iRacing · 28 Jul 2011, 09:00 (Ref:2932054)

There has been a lot of stuff going on saying that Kubica could be a championship winner in a better car but I dunno-- Vettel when he is up front is unstoppable but as soon as he is not in first he isn't that good...

chillibowl · 28 Jul 2011, 20:18 (Ref:2932252)

lots of arguments for Alonso being the best but no explanation of his inability to pass Petrov last year.

in his prime Alonso he was amazing but for me there are too many questions about life at Renault for me to blindly accept that everything Alonso accomplished there was purely on merit...a few years on and i am still bitter about Singapore 2008 i guess.

for me it is currently between SV and LH and really SV is the only top driver who is driving better now than at any other point in their F1 career.

the earlier comments that suggested that LH, while great, has not improved as much as others have during their F1 careers. that really rung true with me but at the same time i find it amazing just how prepared he was from the first moment he lined up on the grid.

Mr V · 28 Jul 2011, 22:43 (Ref:2932296)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

lots of arguments for Alonso being the best but no explanation of his inability to pass Petrov last year.

When the (enivitable) comments about Seb not being able to pass last week (Nurbringring) came up, i was going to mention the fact that Fernando couldn't get past Petrov, or that (until moving over for him) Webber couldn't overtake Algusuari (Abu Dhabi also) or that Hamilton couldn't overtake Vettel in Barcelona.

wnut · 29 Jul 2011, 07:37 (Ref:2932375)

Quote:

Originally Posted by blaffer

After today's race in Germany, I believe Hamilton and Alonso are the best of the current era. I would even rate them higher than Schumacher in his best years. Hamilton and Alonso remind me of the likes of Peterson, Villeneuve, Prost, ...

Hamilton sadly just reminds me of Hamilton.

None of the above gentlemen would come up with this ..

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...o-amazing.html

Mr V · 29 Jul 2011, 14:38 (Ref:2932714)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Hamilton sadly just reminds me of Hamilton.

None of the above gentlemen would come up with this ..

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...o-amazing.html

To be fair, i haven't watched the vid clip, but the headline say's "I'm so amazing", yet, at no point in the quoted part does he say he's amazing, he say's "it's amazing", so i would take some of that article as usual Sun

. That said, i can't imagine Seb, Fernando, Mark or Jenson ever coming up with the line "but I am more starstruck by my own self"

Marbot · 29 Jul 2011, 18:16 (Ref:2932880)

Surely, Schumacher is statistically best of the current era? He's just going through a bit of a bad bad patch, that's all.

JeremySmith · 30 Jul 2011, 14:41 (Ref:2933358)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Hamilton sadly just reminds me of Hamilton.

None of the above gentlemen would come up with this ..

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...o-amazing.html

Look at the source....

phoenix · 30 Jul 2011, 16:07 (Ref:2933428)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Look at the source....

Quite! And how many plugs for Sky TV can you get into one article!

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