2013 GoPro Grand Prix of Sonoma

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mythoughtsareracing

Yeah....

The Monday Morning officiating is great, isn't it?

Sorry, but the call was just, and fair. This overhead view CLEARLY shows Dixon cutting across Power's pit stall. The ugly greenish line is the "border" between pit stalls.




Whether you agree with the call or not, Dixon made the <expletive deleted> move by not expressing any concern for the guy he knocked down, especially on nearly national cable TV in front of a couple thousand viewers.
(I apologize if I dripped any sarcasm on anyone)

I do believe that there was pit stall gamesmanship taking place. Power does look to be pitting shallow, forcing Dixon to make a sharper turn to exit. It looks like Dixon was set up to stop deep in his stall, too.

Shouldn't that green line be where Power's rear wing is? If anything Power's rear tyres are on the line separating the Penske pit box #4 and Ganassi pit box #5 and the rear wing is hanging over into the Ganassi pit box. As for Dixon's car, it's in pit box #5, the first of the two Ganassi pit boxes.

[racerxf12004]

I thought it was an exciting race. Close racing & passing. Side by side battles.They made a bad call on the dixon/penske crew member thing, but the race itself was great..........made up for that f1 snorefest at Spa............

[anthonyvop]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Shouldn't that green line be where Power's rear wing is? If anything Power's rear tyres are on the line separating the Penske pit box #4 and Ganassi pit box #5 and the rear wing is hanging over into the Ganassi pit box. As for Dixon's car, it's in pit box #5, the first of the two Ganassi pit boxes.

The painted lines are those used by NASCAR. IndyCar Pit boxes are of another dimension and the teams mark them with racer's tape and sponsor banners.

Beaux made the right call

From the IndyCar rule book

7.10. Pit Penalties
7.10.1. The following matters and any others which may be determined by the Race Director are cause for a Car to be penalized:

7.10.1.4. Car contact with pit equipment outside of standard pit stop procedures;

7.10.1.6. Contact with personnel;

7.10.1.9. Car entering a pit other than the Car’s assigned pit.

We have irrefutable proof that Dixon violated 3 rules.[/QUOTE]

That's fairenough then, Dixon is guilty as charged.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by anthonyvop

The painted lines are those used by NASCAR. IndyCar Pit boxes are of another dimension and the teams mark them with racer's tape and sponsor banners.

Beaux made the right call

From the IndyCar rule book

We have irrefutable proof that Dixon violated 3 rules.

That's fairenough then, Dixon is guilty as charged.

[Paradise City]

I hope Helio gets competition in the last few races. Well done Power and Wilson for preservering to the end.

Always knew that Dixon guy was a wrong 'un.

[Peat]

Image i made for another forum:


While i agree that it shows that Dixon was technically at fault, would it really be that difficult for ICS to put some tape/paint down so they are visible to everyone?

Yesterdays race has left a bitter taste for alot of people.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peat

Image i made for another forum:


While i agree that it shows that Dixon was technically at fault, would it really be that difficult for ICS to put some tape/paint down so they are visible to everyone?

That's what I was thinking, otherwise it's all sort of hit and miss, in Dixon's case hit.

[mythoughtsareracing]

Originally Posted by Peat

While i agree that it shows that Dixon was technically at fault, would it really be that difficult for ICS to put some tape/paint down so they are visible to everyone?

Yesterdays race has left a bitter taste for alot of people.

I agree that there should be some markings. Hell, they can stripe the boxes with temporary vinyls or something.


I'm reasonably sure the reason the NASCAR pit stalls are permanently painted on is that it's one of Bruton Smith's houses.

[gert]

Originally Posted by anthonyvop

From the IndyCar rule book

Do you need to violate more than 1 rule to get penalized, or do you get a penalty when you do 1 wrong?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by gert

Do you need to violate more than 1 rule to get penalized, or do you get a penalty when you do 1 wrong?

Tyres are not pit equipment. Were the tyres left there (delayed removal?) to deliberately obstruct the opposition. If so that is worthy of a DQ....

Did he hit the tyres first or the personnel....? If not the personnel it didn't offend the rule. If the tyres were left to obstruct then Power should be penalised.

He was leaving his pit not trying to enter powers pit.... And there is no evidence he was attempting Power's pit.

I would have to stretch to apply the rule the way it has been applied in this case.
Secondly: If there is any similar incidents on a departure from a pit under the present rules, at any time, in any race, and a similar penalty or procedure has not been applied then Indy car has left itself wide open to misuse of the rules and deliberate inconsistency of rule application.

Ganassi / Dixon fans would have every right to feel that Indycar has selectively acted in a manner to disable a particular competitors efforts in the title competition.

I have no association with Ganassi/Dixon but what happened in this incident was appalling application of sporting judicial procedure (something I am associated with) and should be open to proper investigation. If rule application is inconsistent there is a case to answer.

[JagtechOhio]

The placement of the red graphics bars can't be correct, unless Hull has intentionally set Dixon's marks way forward in the pitbox. There is nothing in the video to indicate that Dixon stopped farther forward than intended: tires are laid out, fuel hose is at right angle to the wall.

Agreed with those who mentioned it, where the real borders are shouldn't be a mystery. Particularly for the guy who is looking at the pit wall while walking back to it, which is evident from Power's in-car camera.

You can also see that Power stopped exactly on his marks, they are the red "T"s painted on the tarmac by the Penske crew.

[D.R.T.]

I found Barfields explanation and justification of the penalty quite reasonable and fair.

Clearly marking out the pit boxes for future events is probably something that will come out of the weekend however it doesn't clear Dixon in this instance.

Unfortunate but not the calamity some are making out.

[fieldodreams79]

It is not plainly obvious, but in the screenshot above, you can almost see lines from Dixon's previous box exits very close to his current path further into the pitlane, which indicates that he was exiting as he normally would. As stated, it is difficult to tell the actual pit box lines, but if they are in fact where the banners end, Power appears to be pitted further back in the box, and the tire carrier made himself as large as possible while returning to the pitwall. Also, compare the burnout marks in the rear of Dixon's pits to the ones in Powers; the ones in Dixon's are much further into the pitting area than Dixon's.

While Dixon is not completely absolved from this, I feel he is not totally to blame and see it as an incident where both parties can take equal responsibility, but only one team was punished; it should have been settled on track. However, if Power's team is only guilty of "gamesmenship", the more power to them for giving themselves every advantage possible to win. Just glad the crew members will only be a little black and blue as a result.

[Peat]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

The placement of the red graphics bars can't be correct

I was just going off what Barfield said. i.e - The box is defined by the teams advertising hoardings on the pitwall (which you can just about see from that shot)

[Peat]

Due to the element of doubt in this case, i think it would have been more appropriate to fine Ganassi and then clarify the rules (and take steps like painting lines etc) for future events.

As it is, they have effectively shot the championship fight in the head for a reason that needs to be explained in detail to the fans. It's only us nerds who have analysed it in detail and have accepted the judgement, for the person who switched off the telecast on Sunday and doesn't look at forums, they are still probably crying 'BS'.

For a 'fan friendly' series like ICS, this really shouldn't be the case.

[Razzzor]

It's a bit tricky saying he should be penalised for entering the Power pitbox, if going by the painted lines. I bet everyone does that throughout the race. Power himself drove straight through the middle four pit boxes! It just so happens that there were no teams in them at the time.

The pit stalls were very tight, Dixon already had his car on an angle to help him get out. And he already lost a position in the pits to Power the first time they pitted, you can't blame him for wanting to minimise time lost because of tight stalls.

It appears all you have to do is make sure the team behind puts there tyres within your pit box, and stick one of your own pieces of equipment out there. Maybe they could have a large boom with a spanner on the end and dangle it outside the pit box. When the team behind hits it, boom, penalty.

I do hope this doesn't affect the championship, but the incident cost him 37 points on Helio. He's 39 behind now, instead of just 2 behind. But if he can do a similar few races where Helio AND Ryan struggle, then he can make that up. Dixon certainly doesn't have the luck of Helio, he's had a lot of things go wrong this year while Helio hasn't had anything go wrong. Did anyone notice the amount of times Helio had contact with another car and got away with it? 5 or 6 times at least.

I'm not sure who to bet on for the title - it's all going to depend on whether Dixon can carry the recent Ganassi speed on for another 4 races and not have more go wrong. Ryan seems about the same speed as Helio lately, both lagging behind Power and the Ganassi cars.

[rantanamo]

LOL@ the excuses for Dixon and Ganassi. If you are really looking at them, and even Townsend Bell mentioned it, Will Power's marks are in the middle of his box, while Dixon's were set further forward to create an easier entry/exit for Dario Franchitti. Dixon was attempting to cut off Power from the inside lane when exiting, so he took a shallow exit. SINCE WHEN were cars exiting the pits so close to the car in front, which the picture of Dixon clearly shows. Dixon's path would have easily hit the rear tire changer. OK if nothing is in that box, but Power was still there. Dixon got caught trying to gain his own advantage and it didn't work. He clearly drove into an occupied pit box that had active service going on. There is simply no excuse for that and its dangerous. As shown on another site, the rear tire changer for Power did the same thing he always does. Tire in the same position. Same walk away at a diagonal to clear the rear wing.

[gomick]

You reckon IndyCar could paint over the NASCAR pit lane boxes - I mean come on, NASCAR can re-paint anytime in the next 10 months... OH&S IndyCar, buy some paint & paint your own boxes!!!

[Paradise City]

Dixon should've been penalised and it was good that he was for the infraction that he committed.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Barfield stands by decision.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109514

[HJJ]

Lots of P.O.'d people.

http://blogs.indystar.com/racingexpe...k-still-abuzz/

[KSR88]

So in review:
It was the Penske team' fault for their pit practices.
The RR tire guy blatently walked into the car.
He could have spun around and Dixson could have been hurt.
It was Beau's fault..he is inconsistent...we need a divorce from him.
Oh-don't forget Will Power pushed Dario off into the grass
Pressure can bring out the best and worst....sadly this kinda reminds me of defendant testimony in a DUI accident trial.
Scott's wheels were straight-no avoiding action on his part. So how does he expect avoiding action from the other guy--all in a blink of an eye.
Pretty sad behavior has blown an accident into conspiracy and the trashing of the series and stewards. Probably why NASCAR fines guys for mouthing off against NASCAR...not in everyones long term best interest. Do it behind closed doors.
A petty example of I AM RIGHT egos.

[gert]

I think the series all has to blame it on itself.

They could have painted lines to mark the pit boxes - or colour taped it, but chose not to.
In a controversial incident they decide to punish 1 party instead of investigating after the race. They still could have punished or fined if needed after the race.

What if after the race they would have figured out that Scott Dixon was blameless?
Wasn't he innocently punished in the past already?
(edit: yes he was, Milwaukee 2012)


Oh boy, the series really want/need a Penske championship. And it shows - just my opinion.