[Driver] 2018 F1 silly season.

[GTRMagic]

Does having a Benz engine in the tail solve all a team's issues?

Upgrade Delay For Force India & Williams

They pay for their engines too....

[wnut]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Does having a Benz engine in the tail solve all a team's issues?

Upgrade Delay For Force India & Williams

They pay for their engines too....

This came about as soon as the FIA allowed the manufacturers to run different spec engines. Originally you were only able to run 1 homologated specification.
If you think you are running anything close to a works spec engine as a Mercedes customer, you are smoking something illegal.

No non works Mercedes engine car has even come close to winning a race, even when the works team is not on the podium.

McLaren's point for going to Honda.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by wnut

This came about as soon as the FIA allowed the manufacturers to run different spec engines. Originally you were only able to run 1 homologated specification.
If you think you are running anything close to a works spec engine as a Mercedes customer, you are smoking something illegal.

No non works Mercedes engine car has even come close to winning a race, even when the works team is not on the podium.

McLaren's point for going to Honda.

Not quite. The customer Mercs are physically identical to the works cars. The difference is all in the mapping...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Not quite. The customer Mercs are physically identical to the works cars. The difference is all in the mapping...

Nope.

c.f. GTR's post above!

Besides the mapping is vital.

[peebee2]

I can promise you - they are physically identical.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I can promise you - they are physically identical.

Green says that Force India and Williams were originally told that they would also have the upgrade from the Belgian GP, but manufacturing issues led to a delay.

Software doesn't require manufacturing, so this quote suggests there is a difference in hardware.

[peebee2]

Sorry, you are right. They are just getting the latest engine later. But when they do it will be the same as the works. But not the mapping, not by a long way!

[wolfhound]

At Monza Mercedes could have done with their customers having the latest spec engine as it would have been possible to push Ferrari a bit back down the field.

[F1Guy]

Fernando Alonso: "Many news are coming in the next weeks and hopefully all of them will be useful to me to make a decision.

"I'll keep looking at what options are there for next year, I need to study all of them and make a decision.

"We know what that engine could do – Red Bull did five, six consecutive podiums, and we know what Mercedes could do as well with Force India this year, Williams on the first row of the grid
.
"So we know what are the options, we need to make a decision. We need to concentrate more on next year, not this year's results.

"It's an important week, for McLaren to make some decisions, and hopefully we'll all know something before Singapore so we can comment on it there."

[F1Guy]

Is it the end of Honda in F1 once again??

If McLaren switch to Renault, and STR don't want Honda, will we be saying sayonara to Honda in F1 once more?

Apparently Todt, Carey, Bratches, Brawn, Yamamoto, Hasegawa along with other Fia, F1 and Honda personnel had an emergency meeting at Monza to discuss the matter. Things didn't go according to plan apparently - and more time is needed to resolve the situation.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

A bit more on this from Hungary. Toro Rosso could end up being the factory Honda team in 2018 - giving up their Renault engine supply to McLaren. It looks like a engine supply swap could be on the cards.

Originally Posted by F1Guy

The latest news from pitlane suggesting McLaren have had another meeting with Renault regarding an engine supply deal. The meeting at Silverstone was a lengthy one apparently.

Also, Honda have approached Toro Rosso regarding a partnership for 2018. In the wake of Fred Vasseur confirming Sauber are renegotiating the Honda supply deal, and the potential divorce from McLaren, Honda are looking for a team to supply engines to next year. Or face leaving F1.

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Apparently, Williams have made an offer to Alonso for a 2018 drive.

Interesting move if true. Lowe and Alonso would make a great combination.

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Fernando Alonso: "Many news are coming in the next weeks and hopefully all of them will be useful to me to make a decision."
"I'll keep looking at what options are there for next year, I need to study all of them and make a decision."
"It's an important week, for McLaren to make some decisions, and hopefully we'll all know something before Singapore so we can comment on it there."

Originally Posted by F1Guy

McLa-Ren-Ault.

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Toro Rosso and Honda partnership not quite over yet. Discussions ongoing, apparently.

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Is it the end of Honda in F1 once again??

If McLaren switch to Renault, and STR don't want Honda, will we be saying sayonara to Honda in F1 once more?

Apparently Todt, Carey, Bratches, Brawn, Yamamoto, Hasegawa along with other Fia, F1 and Honda personnel had an emergency meeting at Monza to discuss the matter. Things didn't go according to plan apparently - and more time is needed to resolve the situation.

If more time is needed to resolve the situation, does that mean that we will not be getting an announcement Tuesday?
At the moment, I am reading a lot of talk mentioning that talks are ongoing amongst many parties in the pit lane, but all that is being reported is a seemingly endless list of speculation and guesswork, with nothing being given as evidence of where the talks are heading other than hearsay.
I'm sure it is possible to provide many examples up and down the pitlane where personnel from different teams and suppliers have been in meetings - the majority of these will lead to nothing, every now and then something will change.
At this point in time though, I admit to being confused as to when things might be happening as we are continually being told different things.

Firstly, it was reported that an engine swap was on the cards as far back as July (and possibly earlier).
Then it was off, then it was on, then it was only McLaren to Renault and Honda out, then Williams were mentioned as being involved....

The only evidence I have seen so far is Alonso's quote that offers are being considered and a report in autosport dated 17 Aug that said the talks had already fallen through...

Originally Posted by Nikki Katz

Not happening in 2018 https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131280/toro-rossohonda-talks-collapse

So what is the situation?
Any F1 observer would be able to tell you that there are issues with the Honda PU, and that Alonso has been frustrated with his position.
So it would not make much of a jump to speculate that the most likely changes of position/contract for 2018 would be for McLaren to drop Honda, or for Alonso to move teams.
Of the multitude of personnel who's lives (professionally and socially) interact in the pitlane, there must have been many occasions where personnel associate with Honda or McLaren have met personnel from other teams/suppliers.

But for those who are not 'on the inside', all we have at the moment are a list of meetings, speculations with no evidential backing, and the occasional denial that things are going to change.

I know this is called the 'silly season' thread, but until something definitive materialises I will remain firmly of the view that all speculations being offered are just that - silly speculations.

I'm sure when something does materialise though, we'll be able to give credit to those that reported it first - but if enough fake news is published, eventually some of it must come true anyway.....

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I know this is called the 'silly season' thread, but until something definitive materialises I will remain firmly of the view that all speculations being offered are just that - silly speculations.

Bravo! The thread has "Rumours" and "silly" in the title after all.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I'm sure when something does materialise though, we'll be able to give credit to those that reported it first - but if enough fake news is published, eventually some of it must come true anyway.....

I'm guessing that little comment was directed at me, going by you multi-quoting my posts. FYI, nothing of what I have posted in those quotes is "insider information". Most of it was, or would have been reported on the WWW. Be it fake news or speculation, it is a point of interest, and open to discussion on a forum that is for discussion. Ones inability, or lack of effort does not make it "insider information" when somebody posts any rumours or speculation F1 related that is freely available on the WWW in most cases.


BTW...

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Can't be bothered clicking the link to read whatever it links to. Can you summarise what deadline?

...you say you "cannot be bothered" to click on a link that's already provided, yet you go to all the efforts of finding past posts of mine (posts from other threads than this even!), multi-quoting them, to then post them on here in an lame effort to get a silly point across?? Wow! If only one would put the same amount of effort into finding their own so called "insider information" for all of us to discuss on the forum!

Back to my armchair now - sitting in front of my computer waiting for the next race. If there's any silly season rumours or news in the meantime, hopefully crmalcolm will post it up for all of us to have a discussion on.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Bravo! The thread has "Rumours" and "silly" in the title after all.




I'm guessing that little comment was directed at me, going by you multi-quoting my posts. FYI, nothing of what I have posted in those quotes is "insider information". Most of it was, or would have been reported on the WWW. Be it fake news or speculation, it is a point of interest, and open to discussion on a forum that is for discussion. Ones inability, or lack of effort does not make it "insider information" when somebody posts any rumours or speculation F1 related that is freely available on the WWW in most cases.


BTW...

...you say you "cannot be bothered" to click on a link that's already provided, yet you go to all the efforts of finding past posts of mine (posts from other threads than this even!), multi-quoting them, to then post them on here in an lame effort to get a silly point across?? Wow! If only one would put the same amount of effort into finding their own so called "insider information" for all of us to discuss on the forum!

Back to my armchair now - sitting in front of my computer waiting for the next race. If there's any silly season rumours or news in the meantime, hopefully crmalcolm will post it up for all of us to have a discussion on.

Most likely didn't read your "comment".

[p-matt]

Interesting to think that we could have 3 teams confirming their driver lineups this week as a result of the McLaren Honda debacle:
Alonso and Vandoorne stay at McLaren Renault
Sainz to Renault alongside Hulkenberg
Kvyat and Gasly at Toro Rosso Honda

I still think someone will sign Kubica - what about Williams? It's the ballsy move Williams seem keen on, and it would be a great driver team fit.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Bravo! The thread has "Rumours" and "silly" in the title after all.

If we're going to go down the pedantic route - just "siily". Rumours is the category, not the title.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

I tend to skip any posts that have more than a few lines. CBF'd reading it all.

And yet here you are making posts with way more than a few lines - in response to posts that have more than a few lines?

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Bravo! The thread has "Rumours" and "silly" in the title after all.




I'm guessing that little comment was directed at me, going by you multi-quoting my posts. FYI, nothing of what I have posted in those quotes is "insider information". Most of it was, or would have been reported on the WWW. Be it fake news or speculation, it is a point of interest, and open to discussion on a forum that is for discussion. Ones inability, or lack of effort does not make it "insider information" when somebody posts any rumours or speculation F1 related that is freely available on the WWW in most cases.


BTW...

...you say you "cannot be bothered" to click on a link that's already provided, yet you go to all the efforts of finding past posts of mine (posts from other threads than this even!), multi-quoting them, to then post them on here in an lame effort to get a silly point across?? Wow! If only one would put the same amount of effort into finding their own so called "insider information" for all of us to discuss on the forum!

Back to my armchair now - sitting in front of my computer waiting for the next race. If there's any silly season rumours or news in the meantime, hopefully crmalcolm will post it up for all of us to have a discussion on.

[GTRMagic]

Back on topic for a moment...

What chance is there that Red Bull is actually in the middle of negotiating the sale of a shareholding in STR to Honda?

It may trigger a break clause with Renault for change of ownership, and take away any contractual risk at breaking a presumably solid engine deal between STR and Renault.

And get Red Bull shot of funding a second team..

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Back on topic for a moment...

What chance is there that Red Bull is actually in the middle of negotiating the sale of a shareholding in STR to Honda?

It may trigger a break clause with Renault for change of ownership, and take away any contractual risk at breaking a presumably solid engine deal between STR and Renault.

And get Red Bull shot of funding a second team..

What likelihood is there that Honda would want to own a team in F1 at the moment?

They have clearly struggled to get an engine to perform properly, and if they had to get a chassis to perform as well the consequences could be calamitous.

Would it also have implications for Alonso. We hear that it is Honda's money that is paying for Alonso to be in the seat - would Honda want him in their car if they were funding a whole team?

[S griffin]

Maybe they'll bring back Super Aguri, that's there best chance to stay in F1 ATM

[F1Guy]

Felipe Massa to race in Formula E.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/15801


Hopefully in 2018! A waste of a good F1 seat.

[S griffin]

How has Massa been a waste? If anything it's a good job he's there, as his experience has been invaluable

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Moderator Note

Cut out the comments aimed at other posters.

Any more and infractions will be handed out.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Maybe they'll bring back Super Aguri, that's there best chance to stay in F1 ATM

that would be awesome...have some old kit that i would love to bust out again!

Originally Posted by S griffin

How has Massa been a waste? If anything it's a good job he's there, as his experience has been invaluable

big Massa fan and for sure he has added some much needed stability to Williams this year...

but a missed race in Hungary (not entirely sure the reasons why and it seemed to be a concern even after the break - just a formality or is his fitness level decreasing/normal aging) and in fairness he did look pretty ragged on track in Italy. lucky even that he didnt damage his car more.

anyways, i think its fair to say he is in real danger of losing that seat for 2018.

as for Palmer...Alonso is pretty angry and (tin foil hat time) given how much he must have realized people care about the things he says on the radio, in my head, his Italian GP comments sounded like Alonso was making a very public case to Renault that Palmer should be fired as that Renault seat, i suspect, is one of Alonso's bail out options.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

What likelihood is there that Honda would want to own a team in F1 at the moment?

They have clearly struggled to get an engine to perform properly, and if they had to get a chassis to perform as well the consequences could be calamitous.

Would it also have implications for Alonso. We hear that it is Honda's money that is paying for Alonso to be in the seat - would Honda want him in their car if they were funding a whole team?

Honda wouldn't be making the car, the people they inherited at STR would.
They could do a helluva lot worse than James Key at the helm....

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by chunterer

They could do a helluva lot worse than James Key at the helm....

Could not agree more.