[BTCC] BTCC 2001 questions

[armchair racer]

Im just getting back into the BTCC series after a few yrs of taking no interest ( after the super tourers finished) , as ive purchased the 2008 dvd recently , and the racing is still awsome ( could do with more incar/bumper cam shots though)...
As i was watching them a few questions popped into my head , which hopefully you guys will answer..
Firstly, why did gow quit and the series change from the four door family cars to the coupe ( astra/406 etc) ??
And why did all the manufacturers drop out ??? i know it was a cost consideration but seeing as it was a new format what did they dislike about it ??

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by armchair racer

As i was watching them a few questions popped into my head , which hopefully you guys will answer..
Firstly, why did gow quit and the series change from the four door family cars to the coupe ( astra/406 etc) ??

Don't know why Alan Gow quit.

The coupes came in at the same time time as Supertouring went : the creation of the BTC-Touring rules. I presume it was due to a perception that four-door repmobiles weren't universally popular, and more sporty models would be prefered. Not that the MG workhorses used by WSR were BTC-T rules and four doors. The rules allowed both.

And why did all the manufacturers drop out ??? i know it was a cost consideration but seeing as it was a new format what did they dislike about it ??

The cost of Supertouring, and I guess the cost of designing new cars.

[Speed-King]

2000 saw a major shift towards Coupes in several European countries.
Germany re-started DTM with the CLKs, Astra Coupes and TTs and France switched to that weird silhouette formula which we still see today in BTCS, which also allowed for Coupes like the Pug 407.

It's my personal touring car pet peeve, that they couldn't come up with a common ruleset back then...

[racer69]

Gow didn't quit so to speak from memory.

Didn't TOCA UK lose the rights to promote & run the BTCC to BMP (British Motorsport Promoters), who were supposed to take over circa-2002 after TOCA's deal finished in 2001 (wasn't it announced during 1999)

This was in the middle of the rule changes previously announced by TOCA that were supposed to come into effect in 2001.

From memory in early 2000 TOCA UK was sold to BMP, and Gow stepped down to allow the new lot to run it (i forget the figureheads name, West??)

In early 2003 Gow was re-appointed at the head of the series.

Others here would be able to be more detailed though

[armchair racer]

So really it all went pear shaped because Gow left and another promoter took over and tried to alter the series??
One thing that bemuses me though about the manufacturers is that they will spent hundreds of millions of pounds running an f1 team , mostly without a chance of success ( toyota for example) but wouldnt carry on spending 10 million ( or whatever figure it was ) on touring cars , which is a more positive advert for the manufacturer(imo) and was shown throughout the world ... , Everybody remembers the btcc estates , even though they didnt win a race ( i now drive a volvo estate due to my fond memories back in the day) ...And a 405 mi16 as my toy ..

[KA]

Originally Posted by armchair racer

So really it all went pear shaped because Gow left and another promoter took over and tried to alter the series??
One thing that bemuses me though about the manufacturers is that they will spent hundreds of millions of pounds running an f1 team , mostly without a chance of success ( toyota for example) but wouldnt carry on spending 10 million ( or whatever figure it was ) on touring cars , which is a more positive advert for the manufacturer(imo) and was shown throughout the world ... , Everybody remembers the btcc estates , even though they didnt win a race ( i now drive a volvo estate due to my fond memories back in the day) ...And a 405 mi16 as my toy ..

Not really- if anything it went pear-shaped because the manufacturers started to bail out, and the presence of large numbers of manufacturer cars, combined with the rising cost of running and building Supertouring cars had already driven out a lot of the traditional BTCC privateers. If you look at the peak of 10 manufacturers or so in 1994, then it was a slow decline in numbers from then on, until we were left with just Ford Vauxhall and Honda by 2000

At that point, something had to give, and the 2001 BTC-T regs were a response to that.

I guess manufacturers picked coupes or hatches because they felt they were the models best suited to the rules, and because that's what they wanted to market.

The 4-door family saloon v Coupe debate doesn't really make any odds to me, because I'm part of that older generation who go back to 80's Group A when touring cars covered everything from 2/4 door saloons to 3/5 door hatches to coupes- for me if the regs say it's a touring car, then it's a touring car.

[KA]

Originally Posted by racer69

(i forget the figureheads name, West??)

Richard West I think

[Craig]

It was too expensive and, coupled with the changes in the car industry at that time (Renault and Nissan becoming one; Volvo being bought by Ford, etc.), the series was on a downward spiral from the end of 1998. The following year was a pretty good season but many of the big names left at the end of 99 and turnout was a shambles in 2000. Plans had been afoot to replace the Super Touring rules for a season or two but they were a year late and were always playing catch-up to the new ETCC/WTCC series and their Super 2000 regs. Whilst some progress was made under Richard West's guidance (not much to be honest!) it took the return of Alan Gow for any real confidence to return to the series but, by that time it was too late and the series had become little more than a glorified club-racing series.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Craig

Plans had been afoot to replace the Super Touring rules for a season or two but they were a year late and were always playing catch-up to the new ETCC/WTCC series and their Super 2000 regs.

I disagree. The BTC rules were second after DTM in the new wave of touring car regulations. The FIA could have gone with the BTC rules, but they did their own thing and that was that for BTCC as the prime series in Europe.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by armchair racer

So really it all went pear shaped because Gow left and another promoter took over and tried to alter the series??

Arguably it was the other way around, Gow left because it was all going pear shaped.

You'd have to ask Alan Gow himself why he actually quit. I suspect he had the opportunity to sell up and move on and decided the time was right.

Originally Posted by Craig

Plans had been afoot to replace the Super Touring rules for a season or two but they were a year late and were always playing catch-up to the new ETCC/WTCC series and their Super 2000 regs.

I'll agree that once established it was the way forward but don't forget that the S2000 regs didn't appear until 2002, a year after BTC-T. In 2001 continuing with Super Touring simply wasn't an option, the BTCC had to do something new and whilst BTC-T was far from perfect it was the best if not only solution available at the time. Had the various members of the FIA's Touring Car Commission been able to stop bickering and come to a decision a bit earlier then things could have been very different.

The basics of BTC-T (reduced costs, common components) was what TOCA had proposed 18 months earlier. The boxy body and oversized aero were a later addition, designed to appeal to the 'Max Power' market. The 4-door / minimum length requirements which had been a cornerstone of Super Touring for many years were dropped for these new regs, which meant cars such as the Astra and 406 Coupe were now possible. Whether it was Vauxhall taking advantage of the new regs or using their influence to steer the new regs in that direction is another question - I suspect a little of both.

[KA]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I'll agree that once established it was the way forward but don't forget that the S2000 regs didn't appear until 2002, a year after BTC-T. In 2001 continuing with Super Touring simply wasn't an option, the BTCC had to do something new and whilst BTC-T was far from perfect it was the best if not only solution available at the time. Had the various members of the FIA's Touring Car Commission been able to stop bickering and come to a decision a bit earlier then things could have been very different.

The basics of BTC-T (reduced costs, common components) was what TOCA had proposed 18 months earlier. The boxy body and oversized aero were a later addition, designed to appeal to the 'Max Power' market. The 4-door / minimum length requirements which had been a cornerstone of Super Touring for many years were dropped for these new regs, which meant cars such as the Astra and 406 Coupe were now possible. Whether it was Vauxhall taking advantage of the new regs or using their influence to steer the new regs in that direction is another question - I suspect a little of both.

I'm totally playing devils advocate here, but with the benefit of hindsight, might it have been preferable to wait for the FIA to sort themselves out over S2000, and run an 'interim' BTCC in 2001 for the Production cars (that ended up comprising a fair percentage of the grid in '01 anyway) before adopting the new FIA regs in 2002...?

OK, it would have left the manufacturers with the problem of building 'BTC-P' cars for a single season, and the reduced performance of the cars would have probably damaged the image of the series, but would that have been any worse than starting the season with less than 10 BTC-T cars, about 50% of which were actually competitive, and the grid padded out with a secondary Production class anyway?

The comment about the 'Max Power' bodykit is interesting- I always found those much more of a 'turn-off' factor about the series than the move to coupes and hatches under 'BTC-T'...

[touringlegend]

A small point, but looking back now I cringe at the BTCC package being called TOCA Tour. That in itself may have confused some people.

Also I think that during 2000 the guy in charge was a Martin Bain - I remember a lot of positive noises being made during late 2000 about Audi and Toyota entering the 2001 series.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Also I think that during 2000 the guy in charge was a Martin Bain - I remember a lot of positive noises being made during late 2000 about Audi and Toyota entering the 2001 series.

I believe that you refer to Rob Bain, who at the time was chairman of British Motorsport Promotions Ltd, who ran the championship. Richard West was appointed in 2000 to replace Alan Gow, although there wasn't a seemless transition between the two individuals. I seem to remember speculation at the time that Tim Harvey was being mooted to take over the role.

[touringlegend]

Originally Posted by kipper

I believe that you refer to Rob Bain

Thats the chap.