Virgin - The discussion thread

[JamesH]

It saddens me when teams that are really doing all they can to get better are told that their performance is 'unacceptable'.

There are a lot of people working very hard to improve, on limited budgets, and limited testing, and dismissing them with an 'unacceptable' is very unfair.

They are very reliant of getting the up front design right and then working on that to improve. If HRT had a better design of car at the beginning of the year, but less development, they are still going to be on a level with Virgin.

Look at the RBR - this car is well ahead of the Mclarens and Ferraris and is staying there because the initial design was better. But nobody is saying that Mclaren's efforts are 'unacceptable'

Give these new teams a chance. Their people deserve it.

[Marbot]

The top teams are spending about $300 million and the bottom teams are spending around $30 million. But the top teams aren't ten times better. Credit where credit's due IMO.

[Bononi]

Nice stats you got there, is there a sheet we could see that more detailed ?

[gwyllion]

Stats for team budgets? Just do a google search. Some hits:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=40573
http://www.thef1times.com/community/display/00207

BTW one of the search hits had a funny prediction:

HRT failed to qualify after an embarrassing display in Australia, but owner Jose Ramon Carabante insists the Spanish team will be beating rivals Virgin and Lotus by May.

I wonder whether he meant the beginning or the end of May. Beating Virgin might be possible, but Lotus

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by JamesH

It saddens me when teams that are really doing all they can to get better are told that their performance is 'unacceptable'.

There are a lot of people working very hard to improve, on limited budgets, and limited testing, and dismissing them with an 'unacceptable' is very unfair.

They are very reliant of getting the up front design right and then working on that to improve. If HRT had a better design of car at the beginning of the year, but less development, they are still going to be on a level with Virgin.

Look at the RBR - this car is well ahead of the Mclarens and Ferraris and is staying there because the initial design was better. But nobody is saying that Mclaren's efforts are 'unacceptable'

Give these new teams a chance. Their people deserve it.

depends on how you define "unacceptable"
look at it this way:
imagine if you were on the team, and you put all that effort into the car, aiming to close in on, or even surpass the Lotus team's pace. Would you find it acceptable that not only you clearly fail at that goal but also you're being catched by a team that didn't even qualify the first race?
if it was me, I'd find that unacceptable.

I mean, we can all aknowledge the Virgin designers, technicians, etc are doing the best they can with the budget available to them, but clearly that is not enough.

[gwyllion]

FYI. Next Sunday Virgin will evaluate the new aero package on the Idiada proving ground (in Spain). Perhaps that will help them to solve the heat issues of the new blown diffuser.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I wonder whether he meant the beginning or the end of May.

Did he say which May?

All the 'new' teams seemed to have a lot of problems unrelated to performance in Turkey. So it was difficult to know who was where and how much any of them had improved.

[gwyllion]

According to http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/det...leid=GV939UVMB D'Ambrosio might lose his seat because his personal sponsors are not making the necessary payments. Eric Boullier will come to Belgium on Thursday to solve the issues. I hope that he succeeds because Jerome is doing well and of course is a fellow countryman.

The replacement driver that is named, is Robert Wickens.

[bella]

wickens isn't exactly loaded either, and he's in a strong position in the formula renault 3.5 title chase. the only advantage is that he's backed by the team owners... which would effectively mean they'd be subsidising his f1 drive anyway.

it just sounds like they're trying to drum up more sponsorship money from belgium to me.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by bella

it just sounds like they're trying to drum up more sponsorship money from belgium to me.

That is not what the article says. They just want the money that was promised.

At the moment Gravity Management is paying from their own pocket. Virgin is giving them some slack because the team is happy with the performance of Jerome and because Eric Boullier has a good relationship with John Booth. However, the current situation is not sustainable.

[bella]

and my point is that the driver boullier is saying they want to replace him with has no cash beyond his current excellent drive in fr3.5. his money is coming from marussia, who would be funding d'ambrosio further if they were going to put more money in their f1 team... especially considering wickens hasn't been in a f1 car for a long time, if at all.

it's just threatening tactics by boullier in going to the press. and some pretty crap judgement on behalf of gravity in the first place if the sponsors haven't paid their first installment 2 months on. i say "sponsors". it looks rather like private investors doesn't it?

[Hawkwood]

I hope whatever is really happening gets sorted soon. I like d'Ambrosio, have for years since he won Formula Master. I always thought he was better than his results in GP2 suggest, but that may just be because I'm biased because I like him
Either way, he's made a decent start to his F1 career, let's hope it's not a shorter run than Di Grassi's was.

[gwyllion]

According to http://www.dhnet.be/sports/formule-1...la-saison.html there is no reason for all the fuzz. The seat of D'Ambrosio is guaranteed until the end of the year.

[marcel82]

Virgin will run a 300km straighline aerodynamics test at Idiada, Spain. Also giving GP3 driver Quaife-Hobbs his first "F1-experience"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91334

[gwyllion]

"Will run"? You mean "has run".

The team enjoyed a solid day of testing with the MVR-02 running reliably throughout. Adrian completed 146km, enabling the team to gather plenty of data with which to further develop the package.

source: http://virginracing.com/news/349/

BTW I already announced that test in http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...55#post2877655

[GTRMagic]

Bye Bye Mr Wirth...

So... does that mean Virgin has no technical facilities of its own now, and has to go a'hunting to get parts developed & made?

[Paradise City]

Virgin is morphing into a HRT No.2.

A Rasputin like organisation run on Russian black magic and shrouded in mystery and intrigue.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Bye Bye Mr Wirth...

So... does that mean Virgin has no technical facilities of its own now, and has to go a'hunting to get parts developed & made?

From Adam Cooper's Auotosport blog: "Virgin has not yet revealed what its immediate plans might be. It’s believed that WRT will continue to supply parts, which are mostly made by third parties, for a few weeks.

The team owns all the IP and drawings, and is free to deal direct with suppliers. It can also reclaim the CSC computing power and continue to utilise it, so getting through this season and creating a 2012 car from scratch might not be as daunting a task as it may at first seem."

Originally Posted by Paradise City

A Rasputin like organisation run on Russian black magic and shrouded in mystery and intrigue.

I believe it's run by a Mr Blofeld, these days.

[GTRMagic]

Any predictions on when Virgin's first DNQ might appear?

[nobster]

Thing can only get better for Virgin, too bad for Nick Wirth, first his very promising HPD Le Mans car was canned by Honda and now this... Hope he will come back.

[old man]

I am sure no one is surprised by this simply based on results and it is always sad to see a team have to make such a major change. From the start I have been concerned that CFD was not balanced by some more practical method of getting empirical data except on the track at race meetings. With the no testing rule you simply need to validate the CFD ideas and budget has perhaps been the real reason they have tried to manage with CFD only.

Wirth research have now had 2 goes at F1 so this must be a blow to them and I am not sure where they go from here, some brilliant minds in that organisation that will be looking for work now.

In the day job I worry about too much faith being put in computer modelling including CFD and this has done nothing to persuade me otherwise.

[Marbot]

When I first read the Autosport headline "Wirth parts company with Virgin". I thought that we were in for yet another F1 scandal.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by old man

Wirth research have now had 2 goes at F1 so this must be a blow to them and I am not sure where they go from here, some brilliant minds in that organisation that will be looking for work now.

I thought three... at Benetton, at Simtek and now at Virgin...

[spider]

Good news for Virgin. Being a cynic, I think this was well on the cards.

From reading between the lines, Timo's language about the future of the team has been a lot more upbeat since Pay Symonds' analysis was underway - I'm pretty certain he would have been assured that the weak points (Wirth) were going to be addressed in due course.

If they do indeed partner with another team, then finally we might see them pushing up towards the midfield a bit more.

2012 could be a lot more promising for them...fingers crossed...

[Sodemo]

Get that thing into a wind tunnel and quick.