'Suzuki SC100' Special Saloon - help with history please!!

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by stealth1

AFAIK Morgan Dempsey was the only one to use the Twink.

I'm pretty sure that George Crozier's mid-engined Maguire-chassised Metro also used a Twin Cam .

Even the 1600 pushrod Ford posed its own set of problems . Familiar in Ireland though it was through its use in both clubman's and in hot rods , it too was by the mid-eighties an exotic and highly-developed engine in its own right . The majority of the good bits developed for use in the 1 litre F3 MAE motor could be carried across , so these motors used steel rods and cranks , forged pistons and rockers , titanium valve spring retainers , and all sorts of other special bits . Despite all this exotica , because of its high specific output for a production based 1600 two-valve pushrod lump , it was also fairly highly stressed .

That's why I liked the idea of the VW unit . Although as you say , it would have been something of an unknown quantity in Ireland , a number of reputable tuners in the UK and Europe had a good deal of experience of these units . It seems that these engines produced around 180bhp on carburettors , and nearly 200 on mechanical injection .

[peter thurston]

The ill handling dog was the imp I put the 1800 bd engine in and ran at lydden 5 yrs back.Yes it did handle badly to start with but I got it down to a 43 second lap just before I had to sell it ( divorces are so expensive)

[Clive Brown]

Peter

There's a lovely symmetry to your posting ! The other ex-Mannion mid-engined Imp that's featured on this thread recently still holds ( and presumably will hold in perpetuity the 1000cc Special Saloon lap record at Lydden in Bob Jarvis's expert hands - 43.4 ?

[peter thurston]

Clive with your memory for these old cars what can you tell me about my escort mk1 v8.I know the car was built by a barry costello and morris ryan who told me they had the shell from walter robertson(picture in racing70s site)and they were told by him it was an ex nick whiting car but which one.

[Clive Brown]

Peter

I think there may have been three Nick Whiting Special Saloon Escorts . The first of these was a steel-shelled Mk. 1 , which I think used an FVC , though whether of the original 1790cc capacity or one of the later 1930 or 1970 variations that people like Geoff Richardson and Alan Smith used to build , I can't recall . I'm pretty sure that somewhere else on the Forum is a posting about this being written off at Brands .

The final car was the GAA engined car that Nick , Andy , and Charlie Whiting built up over the winter of '76/'76 . This was a spaceframe car , of Mk. II shape , and was beautifully made and finished , with no expense spared . I well remember being in the pits during practice at a Mallory meeting in 1977 , and as Nick came through the Elbow onto the pit straight , the OSR wheel complete with half shaft came out of the axle and bounced along the track ....

Now , there may have been an intermediate car , which would have been a spaceframe car using the FVC from the first car . It might have had an RS2000 front ; the third car certainly did .

The problem with so many historic Special Saloons is that the bits got endlessly recycled , and it is thus difficult to know just which car is which . It's a bit like the Ford Falcon Sprint of circa 1964 ; I always understood that this was a real homologation special , and that Ford only ever made six of the proper lightweight cars , yet there seem to be more than that racing in Historics today !

Could it be that your car was the original ACE car bought as a wreck , and rebuilt by the people you name onto a fresh shell ? There were quite a lot of FV/BD engined Mk.Is about in the mid-70s , so the history is likely to be convoluted . I know you've had the car for some time ; how far can you trace it back with any certainty ? Is the front end fully space-framed with double wishbone suspension , or does it retain MacPherson struts ? Nick's Mk.1 certainly had the latter .

The only big banger Escort that really sticks in my mind was Doug Niven's car . Not a lot of help , I'm afraid ....

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by peter thurston

Clive with your memory for these old cars what can you tell me about my escort mk1 v8.I know the car was built by a barry costello and morris ryan who told me they had the shell from walter robertson(picture in racing70s site)and they were told by him it was an ex nick whiting car but which one.

I think at one time Walter Robertson had the 2 litre Pinto turbo engined car built by Jim Evans in the mid-70s prior to building his (Jim) Skoda/ Chevron.
I think the Escort was standard steel bodyshell with normal type suspension - no subframes. Last time I saw it (1975 0r 1976) it was painted white with blue and red stripes.

Re Clive's posting No. 55 - Nick Whiting's first Escort was a Geoff Richardson built 1970cc FVC IIRC.

[peter thurston]

Clive , I can trace its history back to 76.I know it was the walter robertson car for sure and have lots of photos from the previous owners showing it as it evolved but I don't know about it's history before then as nicks brother said he had recollections of the first car was built from his old rallycross car! But he thought he built another steel shelled car that went up north(walter I guess)Maybe if somebody knows walter he could confirm what he bought!

[big andy]

peter

ill ask tony sugden if he knows the history of your car

[driftwood]

alots happened here so im catching up
1 Ray Imps 2 cars where built off the Ff2000 car
Mike Law had the 1st car and sold it to Brian prebbles son who wrote it off at coombe his cars where blue n yellow
2nd car was built for Bob jarvis and this was later sold to Robin Harvey and his mate ( name escapes me) they shared the car after having a davrian- this car was later converted by Bert ray into a S2000 bodied Vauxhall engined Supersport car

Escort- Mick whithing had 2 cars Mk1 was written off at brands whilst lapping aback marker who moved over on him
2nd car was the ga V6 car built up north by Jophn Robinson? i recall 2 or 3 of these cars where built
Whiting sold the car to John Kirk oop norf
there was another car that was in the ACE stable that Divina Galicia drove 1 year with 1300 1600 or a 2 litre motor- it was not a bells n whistles car more something to get her out in- it was not KM livery i think shell and kelly girl gave support?
No idea where this car came from as i type i think this was Mk2 shell not Mk1
later she drove the Surtees TS16? car in ACE colours in Aurora

Re the V8 escort i can ask Jim Evans about yr car if u can provide photos or any questions dates names etc

[Dan Rear]

The Divi Escort was def a mk2 car, 1800 motor I think. Didn't Nick have 2 separate mk1 Escorts. The first from about 1972-73, the later one in around 75.

Certainly the car he had in 75, with a 1975 cc BDG (??), looked much more sophisticated than the one he used in earlier years. With the latter he was right up with Baby Bertha, in previous years he was well behind the big engined Superloons. So either he extensively modded the original car, or it was a brand new one, and if so, probably the ultimate mk1 Escort.

The GA car in 77 was a mk2 design, originally very 'square' in shape, but more 'rounded' in 78. It was sold as DW says to John Kirk in Jockland for 79. This was, again as DW says, built by John Robinson in Northants, hardly up norf drifty!

[davyboy]

One of the Nick Whiting MkIIs

[Clive Brown]

So if there were only two Ray Imps , Gary Prebble wrote one of them off , and Bert Ray converted the other back into a Vauxhall-engined Supersport car , what about the car in Big Andy's picture , which I reckon is the ex-Pat Mannion car ? It doesn't add up - literally , in this case !

I can clearly remember Pat having the car ; I recall twigging him about it being too low . It was a strange metallic reddish-purple colour IIRC .

[Clive Brown]

The saga of Nick Whiting's Escorts is beginning to make sense to me now . When the GAA-engined Mk.II first appeared in 1977 , it had a flat front . It acquire the sloping RS2000-style nose cone for the season after . Incidentally , I wonder if younger ( ahem ) members of this forum realise just how noisy an unsilenced Cosworth EAA/GAA motor was ? I remember being in the marshalling area at Thruxton for a late-season meeting in 1977 with the 2 litre Bevan Stiletto ; Nick was on pole , Rob Mason was second fastest , and Jonathan Bunconbe had put Vince Woodman's Gp. 2 RS3100 Capri on the outside of the front row . Sandwiched between the two of them , the racket was deafening . I believe it was said that Nick's Escort was the noisiest car ever to have run at Brands .

I have vague recollections of the Escort Jim Evans had before the Skoda , although I never saw it in his hands in the flesh . Jim had a long association with AET , who in their day were considered turbo experts , so the turbocharged SOHC Pinto motor made good sense . Now , a guy called Trevor Gibbs , who came from West Sussex and used to race and sprint Imps , bought a turbo Pinto engined Mk. 1 Escort which had at one time been raced by a man called John Taylor ( not John ' Haynes of Maidstone ' Taylor ) , who used to be a steeplechase jockey . I went with Trevor and his team to the hill climb at Val des Terres in Guernsey with this car , which had a spaceframe front end and used McLaren M10B suspension all round .

Whatever happened to this car ? If I remember correctly , it used a rear-mounted Hewland transaxle , and thus would have been more than capable of taking a big banger V8 as an alternative power plant .

[peter thurston]

My escort when sold by walter robertson was bd powered and still mainly steel shelled I believe.Painted metallic blue bottom and white top and SPEEDSHOP in big letters across the front.There are umpteen pictures of it on various sites.But what of its history before then!!

[chunterer]

Fascinating info into this thread, really enjoying reading about these ace little cars histories!!!

But........

I am reluctant to do it but really better remind everyone of thread titles and relevance in what is posted!! Sorry!!

If we carry on talking about other special saloons in the suzuki thread an then talk about suzukis in the lola/skoda thread it will leave us mods/hosts with a tremendous amount of pruning to do!!

Please continue contributing such fantastic history but in please do it in the appropriate threads (or start new ones). Cheers folks

[Alan Brown]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

Now , a guy called Trevor Gibbs , who came from West Sussex and used to race and sprint Imps , bought a turbo Pinto engined Mk. 1 Escort which had at one time been raced by a man called John Taylor ( not John ' Haynes of Maidstone ' Taylor ) , who used to be a steeplechase jockey .

I thought the Haynes of Maidstone John Taylor was an ex-steeplechase jockey. Or is your closing bracket in the wrong place?

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by Alan Brown

I thought the Haynes of Maidstone John Taylor was an ex-steeplechase jockey. Or is your closing bracket in the wrong place?

Now I'm really confused ! My brackets are were I intended them to be ; I used the ' ex-steeplechase jockey ' description to differentiate ( or so I thought at the time ! ) between the John Taylor that raced the turbo pinto Escort , which may have been an ex-Jim Evans AET car , from the Haynes of Maidstone driver , who principally drove rallycross cars . I believe 'HoM' Taylor did some rallying , but little if any circuit racing . Were they one and the same ?

[Alan Brown]

John (Haynes of Maidstone) Taylor was the first European Rallycross champion in 1973 and then a successful rally and development driver for Fords (especially the early competition Fiestas). I do not recall him racing but somebody might know better..........

http://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/fm_...FO=7&FM=130333

[driftwood]

Clive the reason you get confused is cos yr old and having been a 1970`s hippy student at Sussex uni you smoked too much weed its fried yer brain!
Trevor Gibbs later had Vauxhall Firenza & sprinted it and did some Brands races with


Ray Imp maybe Pat took the car off mike law before it went to Prebble Jnr- will call Mike now

Escorts
I thought John Robinson was further north than Northants? anyway from where im sitting it is oop norf!

[driftwood]

as i thought the Ray imp Pat mannion had was Mike Laws car he said they did a 50 50 deal on car Pat did wendy wools mike did lydden races circa 85 ish
car was then sold to Prebble Jnr car was purpley in colour imp engined

Bob Jarvis Ray Imp was 1700 ford powered

[driftwood]

as i thought the Ray imp Pat mannion had was Mike Laws car he said they did a 50 50 deal on car Pat did wendy wools mike did lydden races circa 85 ish
car was then sold to Prebble Jnr car was purpley in colour imp engined

Bob Jarvis Ray Imp was 1700 ford powered

[Steve Wilkinson]

Is there an echo in this forum?

[peter thurston]

I think so so so so

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Bob Jarvis Ray Imp was 1700 ford powered

Later on , yes , but used 998cc Imp mounted upright initially .

[col rooney]

So if i read this right the blue and yellow imp that rob knox has is not the pat mannion car as i had said all along


col