'Suzuki SC100' Special Saloon - help with history please!!

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by col rooney

So if i read this right the blue and yellow imp that rob knox has is not the pat mannion car as i had said all along

By a process of elimination , if it is a Ray Imp ( and from what I've seen of Big Andy's pictures , if it isn't one , then its mother was badly frightened by one ) , then it's got to be the ex-Bob Jarvis car .

What motor has it got these days ?

[col rooney]

Its got a hewland box with a 998 upright engine and from what i remember some of the lads at lydden saying its got brabham corners on it ,box was rebuilt by John Woods and engine its fitted with new slicks and could by yours for around 6 grand i think thats what Rob was looking for it

col

[oneofapair]

The blue and yellow stiletto was raced by Wil Arif mid to late eighties, it belonged to his friend who's name was Graham' ( surname escapes me!), was reputed to be an ex iain forrest/drambuie car but I think the present owner(Rob Knox) pursued that line at some point and drew a blank. It has Brabham corners and reg patten engine 1 litre engine on hewland as stated by BIG Col.
The brian davies suzuki didn't have bodywork when Brian started to rebuild it, the majority of the body is in fact from Clive's "car", he bought it from me when I started my G15 silhouette route. all of the body panels were loaded into Brians trailer and 4x4 , when parked up at his home the whole rig was stolen later to be returned less front bonnet section! Presumably a farmer has a strange piece of fibreglass now hiding in some undergrowth somewhere in kent.
As for G15 project of mine it has become a very slow labour of love hampered somewhat by the ageing process and house moves etc (and any other excuse I can come up with). One day it will be finished just for old times sake, will try to load some pics of original "inspiration" and also progress so far'ish on silhouette car.Good to see Clive is still full of enthusiasm and has a good "historic" view of things, best regards Clive.

John

[driftwood]

yes Col yr learning fast!
to recap
mannion never owned the car but it was written off by Prebble jnr at coombe
jarvis car now as S2000 type car with vauxhall power

[Clive Brown]

It is surely beyond dispute that Pat Mannion raced the second of the two Ray Imps ; the question of title is one that I'd rather leave to m'Learned Friends . As is the nature of such things , this appears to be a divergent thread ; answer one question , and another three pop up ! Try the following :

(i) So if Prebble Jr. destroyed the second Ray Imp , what happened to the bits ? No doubt in due course , each of the four corners will reappear , attached to a new space frame , and each one the genuine original . By the way , I've just found another 20 1964 Ford Falcon Sprints in my back garden , all ex-Alan Mann/Frank Gardner , and each complete with full FIA documentation and an original Chevron chassis plate !

(ii) Given that John Woods appears to have established beyond reasonable doubt that Rob Knox's car was not built by RayRace , who did build it ? Where did the panels come from ? Now John has mentioned it , I can vaguely recall the story of Wil Arif and the Brabham corners ; BT18 ?

Incidentally , Will was a nice guy , especially for someone who drove Formula Fords for much of his career ! I can remember doing a meeting at Oulton Park with David Enderby's Karmann Ghia , and getting involved ( on a day that I'd promised my then-other half that neither of us would get dirty ) in changing the clutch on Will's Formula Ford ; not as easy as it sounds , because he had no mechanical assistance with him , and it turned out that the adaptor between the gearbox and the bell housing had fractured into two pieces !

(iii) Finally , talking of missing cars , whatever happened to Brian Prebble's final home-built spaceframe Imp ? Of all the rear-engined Imp space frames built which used Imp suspension , I always thought that this was the nicest ; legal , well-engineered , rigid where it mattered , and with a proper appreciation of the correct geometry for Imp suspension arms .

[911thillclimber]

You have to admit that the Super/special saloons create a facinating 3 dimensional 'chess game' of people and prolific home brewed specials!

To read the names of Humberstone and John Scheneider against these car and my own quest for my car's history is amazing.

How did the small gaggle of individuals here find the time to do all this and work?

Great stuff.

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

To read the names of Humberstone and John Scheneider against these car and my own quest for my car's history is amazing.

On the " Reader's Cars " section of the Imp Club's website ( www.theimpclub.co.uk ) , posted by Col Rooney on Megapin's thread , is a picture of Alan Humberstone's Stiletto-BDH at Mondello Park , followed by John Schneider's own Special Saloon Imp !

[Rob Knox]

All very interesting have been told my Colin about this thread so have payed my £10. Think brian sold the car after spending LOADS of money on getting it just right a very well sorted car,i think from what he said age and going down Hairy Hill into Paddock Bend at over 100mph put him off the idea!

See John Woods has cleared up a few points on my car the car was bought for my farther to use at lydden as SEMSEC had put together a race series for imps.But his love for pigeon racing took over.

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by Rob Knox

his love for pigeon racing took over.

Another coincidence involving the Special Saloon imp fraternity ! I , too , love pigeons ; chopped onions and celery , diced root vegetables , chicken stock , and covered with a short-crust pastry top .... John Homewood used to be a dab hand at shooting the buggers .

[911thillclimber]

That Red Imp sure looks good. Any other detailed pics to share?

[driftwood]

as a side note Clive i did have a PM message from Fred Hendy- now living in Canada racing a sierra V8 race car
story was he was John Homewoods cousin but Fred said not as far as he was aware he was not related !!

I believe the first Imp Homewood had was a Fraser Imp team car ( i fink i read that in an old AS mag)

[Clive Brown]

John Homewood originally did rallycross with an Imp ; I can't recall his first circuit car being ex-Fraser . Perhaps there is some confusion here with his Kent Messenger team-mate Ray Calcutt ; Ray's certainly was an ex-Fraser car .

[driftwood]

i know RC had his Frazer car but im sure i read in early 73 74 AS that JH had 1 too

[Rob Knox]

The Woods twins were no relation of Ernie Woods , self-confessed retired bank robber , and one-time Special Saloon racer , who bought David Leaver's home-built spaceframe Stiletto , which Rob Mason drove after Woody broke his wrist falling of a Honda Monkey .... whatever became of Woody ?

Clive[/quote]

Erine Woods is still alive and well,spoke to his son Lee at brands the other day getting his boy into karts.

The blue/yellow stiletto has a 998cc that came out of a Pat Mannion car has F3 suspension will be using it at lydden this year.Originally purchased the car for my father to use but old age and a fail at the ards test has resulted in it being used as a spare car.

[driftwood]

what pat mannion car? he did not have the RAY built Imp he shared the car then it was sold to Brian Prebble`s son and he rolled the car
the other Ray imp bob jarvis car is now S2000 type car

[Clive Brown]

Now do pay attention , Drifters old chap ; perhaps your mind has become adled by too much of the extra-curricular activity attributed to you on the Internet ! Rob Knox was talking about a 998 cc Imp motor from one of Pat Mannion's old Imps , not about one of Pat Mannion's old cars ! There were at least four Pat Mannion Imps ; a tin car , a Maguire Stiletto which was Brian Cutting's first ( of two ) Maguires , the 'dog' car ( which Peter Thurston claims to have owned with a BDA in it , but now I'm not so sure ) , and lastly the Ray car , which as Pat did race it in a number of Wendy Wools rounds , I'm calling a Pat Mannion Imp .

The first two cars were rear-engined , with the engines canted at 45° as per the production car , and the latter two had mid-mounted upright engines .

[peter thurston]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

the 'dog' car ( which Peter Thurston claims to have owned with a BDA in it , but now I'm not so sure ) ,

I'm sure ! it had the one piece lift of body and was slab sided.We purchased it from a gent in middlesex who had bought it from pat.He told us he had been told it was draw up by patrick head who I believe was connected to Delta race cars in the early days.Chassis wise I think it was a Formula ford just triangulated in the centre,which was where the handling problem stemed from as it was some what flexible.It is now doing sprints.Pete Oh yes it also had the upright engine which I sold to a guy to put in his Imperiator(now thats got you)

[driftwood]

Pats 1st steel imp was revolution wheels livery im sure it was purple with white roof i recall with purple tinted windows circa 76
Then the Maguire stilleto (Cuttings 1st maguire) was Red with revolution wheels on it - was this car crashed?
I do not for some reason recall a another car except the Ray built car he shared with Mike

[col rooney]

Ah yes Pete the imperiator i wont tell if you dont is it still at your place

col

[peter thurston]

Yes,all done just need some running gear.

[Clive Brown]

I'm sure I can remember Pat's tin Imp being red , the same as his later Maguire Stiletto . It may well , off course , have borne both colour schemes over its career . I'm pretty sure that as time went by , it had more and more bits hacked out of it in the interests of weight saving .

I don't know what happened to Pat's Maguire car ; I remember , though , his team turning up at what might have been the first round of the Wendy Wools at Brands one year with the 'pig' . That was predominantly a cream colour with I think some dark maroon flashes .

Pat's cars carried Revolution Wheels markings for the simple reason that at the time , he owned the company !

Peter , what lead me to wonder whether the car you had really was Pat's third car was that I read somewhere else a thread in which you mentioned the Staines story , but put a date to it which would probably have been too early !

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

I don't know what happened to Pat's Maguire car

Aah .... I think I do ; bought by a guy called Paul Gardner who came from Bournemouth , IIRC .

[driftwood]

ah now Paul Gardener he was an accountant that worked for Oynx/ Mike earl and he stayed in BRegis area to work then drove home for the weekend and raced at Coombe
now i think he either bought Cuttings 2nd Maguire or Pats as Phil Lomas was his rival at Coombe in another Maguire Imp circa 88 89 90 ish

I knew Pat owned rev wheels but his steel Imp was purpley and white for 1 season and yes it was red later on then he painted the maguire red

[col rooney]

Clive is this the slab side car your on about



col

[Clive Brown]

Yes ! I think that's the maroon striping I thought I could recall on the lower body sides .