Team Haas: Gene Haas of NASCAR attempting to start F1 team - Page 36

Casper · 4 Apr 2016, 03:26 (Ref:3630070)

Isn't the recipe Haas used the exact recipe that allowed teams to enter and compete in times past? They are fools if this approach is stopped as it is a viable way to enter and compete and if existing teams can't be competitive with a newcomer they should ask what they are doing wrong and get their act together. I think there are a lot of red faces from the detractors and doubters and so there should be as they never took Haas to be anything more than another lame American attempt to compete in F1 and now he is beating some of them.

Moneyseeker · 4 Apr 2016, 07:30 (Ref:3630109)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I think many teams may not be happy. I put Williams at the top of the list. Could Haas keep up this amazing pace? It's hard to believe, but if so, they could unseat someone like Williams as being "best of the rest". It's amazing to even consider this as a possibility. In reality, it is only the second race and I think what is mostly going on is that Haas has a good solution out of the box. I wonder how well they will do over an entire season (especially with respect to ongoing development).

Anyhow, some thoughts from Pat Symonds after the first round on the topic of Haas and implications to teams such as Williams...

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/127641-...1-teams-status

I can imagine today's results (Haas ahead of both Williams) only reinforces his opinions. I agree it can make it hard to be a "pure" constructor who does all of their own work, but I think it can be healthy for the sport to allow teams to assemble cars either wholly (done in the past) or in part (Haas) from other teams.

Richard

The irony of course is that Frank Williams was first able enter F1 in a customer car, taking advantage of the rules at the time and not being a constructor!

The FIA and FOM must see Haas as a great success for the rules, after HRT, caterham and Marussia that spend tens of millions to achieve very little and generally have cars that were unable to make the move up the grid. Probably, Haas made all the right choices and got all the right deals and was well funded enough to implement them, so I don't think it is as simple as just buying the bits.

Great job by them operationally too.

OZ_HCR32 · 4 Apr 2016, 08:38 (Ref:3630124)

Grosjean is simply the fastest guy on the face of the planet

LOL, have always been a fan and that hasnt always been easy. I am loving watching him race at present. I did hear during last nights race that HAAS has some of the ex Lotus suspension guys and that is largely the reason the car uses its tyres so well.

No doubt the Ferrrari hook up is working, but perhaps some of the key recruits in the engineering team can be attributed some of this success as well

**bjohnsonsmith** · 4 Apr 2016, 08:40 (Ref:3630125)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

The irony of course is that Frank Williams was first able enter F1 in a customer car, taking advantage of the rules at the time and not being a constructor!

But any Constructor's points would go to the manufacturer from who he bought the car.

Moneyseeker · 4 Apr 2016, 08:58 (Ref:3630134)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

But any Constructor's points would go to the manufacturer from who he bought the car.

But he wouldn't have been able to enter at all if he hadn't done it first with a customer car (forget who got any points) which is why Pat Symonds comments are ironic, of all team Williams should know this which is why there is an element of sour grapes...

**bjohnsonsmith** · 4 Apr 2016, 09:05 (Ref:3630137)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

But he wouldn't have been able to enter at all if he hadn't done it first with a customer car (forget who got any points) which is why Pat Symonds comments are ironic, of all team Williams should know this which is why there is an element of sour grapes...

That goes without saying. I'm not too sure what Symond's gripe is? Maybe he should delve into the history of Williams.

Akrapovic · 4 Apr 2016, 09:28 (Ref:3630145)

This is 2010s, not 1970s. Whilst it may seem like hypocrisy, there is 40 years of difference and what applied in the 1970s may not apply now.

Mike Harte · 4 Apr 2016, 09:28 (Ref:3630146)

My date need to be corroborated, but up until about the 70s, points were awarded to the manufacturer of the car, rather than the team of the car that driver was driving for. In other words, Cooper was the winning manufacturer in at least one year, but the cars were entered by different teams that happened to run Coopers.

If this was allowed nowadays under the current system, if the FIA deemed that the Haas was, to all intents and purposes, a Ferrari in disguise, then Grosjean would retain his driver's points, but the Constructor's points would be awarded to Ferrari.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 4 Apr 2016, 09:34 (Ref:3630148)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

My date need to be corroborated, but up until about the 70s, points were awarded to the manufacturer of the car, rather than the team of the car that driver was driving for. In other words, Cooper was the winning manufacturer in at least one year, but the cars were entered by different teams that happened to run Coopers.

If this was allowed nowadays under the current system, if the FIA deemed that the Haas was, to all intents and purposes, a Ferrari in disguise, then Grosjean would retain his driver's points, but the Constructor's points would be awarded to Ferrari.

The way I understand it is, the entrant for this season is Haas F1 Team and the constructor is Hass-Ferrari.

Mike Harte · 4 Apr 2016, 10:11 (Ref:3630163)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The way I understand it is, the entrant for this season is Haas F1 Team and the constructor is Hass-Ferrari.

That's only because, under today's rules, the FIA deem the car to be constructed by Haas. I believe that if the FIA was to take a stricter view surrounding what is, and isn't, allowed, then they might consider the car to be more of a Ferrari than an independently constructed vehicle.

I further believe that this may also lead to other teams setting up, or supporting existing teams, in a similar fashion, thereby creating a grid made up entirely of constructors' A and B teams.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 4 Apr 2016, 10:39 (Ref:3630172)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

That's only because, under today's rules, the FIA deem the car to be constructed by Haas. I believe that if the FIA was to take a stricter view surrounding what is, and isn't, allowed, then they might consider the car to be more of a Ferrari than an independently constructed vehicle.

I further believe that this may also lead to other teams setting up, or supporting existing teams, in a similar fashion, thereby creating a grid made up entirely of constructors' A and B teams.

Surely you mean under today's rules the FIA deem the car is constructed by Haas and Ferrari, hence the Haas-Ferrari listing as the constructor, as well as the FIA seeing this as a joint venture?

It could set a precedence for A and B teams. Wasn't that something Bernie wanted to see happen, so it fills the grid?

Mike Harte · 4 Apr 2016, 10:54 (Ref:3630176)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Surely you mean under today's rules the FIA deem the car is constructed by Haas and Ferrari, hence the Haas-Ferrari listing as the constructor, as well as the FIA seeing this as a joint venture?

It could set a precedence for A and B teams. Wasn't that something Bernie wanted to see happen, so it fills the grid?

The constructor may be noted as Haas-Ferrari, but as with other teams, that means that Haas is the car producer whilst Ferrari is the power provider. It seems to me that the FIA are quite willing to overlook exactly how much input Ferrari actually has, and this was why some of the other teams tried to flag up with the FIA on the matter of the wind-tunnel use. I would hazard a guess that they don't take such a relaxed view of the intimate relationship between the two teams.

And yes, it suits Mr E's agenda; he could rid himself of some of the back-markers in a stroke.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 4 Apr 2016, 11:09 (Ref:3630181)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The constructor may be noted as Haas-Ferrari, but as with other teams, that means that Haas is the car producer whilst Ferrari is the power provider. It seems to me that the FIA are quite willing to overlook exactly how much input Ferrari actually has, and this was why some of the other teams tried to flag up with the FIA on the matter of the wind-tunnel use. I would hazard a guess that they don't take such a relaxed view of the intimate relationship between the two teams.

And yes, it suits Mr E's agenda; he could rid himself of some of the back-markers in a stroke.

Might not the problem be that the FIA doesn't really know what Ferrari's input is? Dallara are supposed to have built the car but who actually designed it? Some sources say it was Dallara, then again Haas has his own design team and they've had the use of Ferrari's wind tunnel. It's an intricate web to say the least.

Mike Harte · 4 Apr 2016, 11:24 (Ref:3630185)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Might not the problem be that the FIA doesn't really know what Ferrari's input is? Dallara are supposed to have built the car but who actually designed it? Some sources say it was Dallara, then again Haas has his own design team and they've had the use of Ferrari's wind tunnel. It's an intricate web to say the least.

Which is why McLaren and Red Bull, I believe were the two teams on behalf of all the others, that made the formal approach to the FIA about the wind-tunnel usage. I think that they were hoping that it would lead to a more forensic investigation into the true relationship between Haas and Ferrari, and that it would shine a light on matters such as the real minds behind the design of the car.

It obviously didn't suit the FIA's purposes to do that; can't be upsetting Todt's old employers, could we!

Moneyseeker · 4 Apr 2016, 11:37 (Ref:3630188)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Might not the problem be that the FIA doesn't really know what Ferrari's input is? Dallara are supposed to have built the car but who actually designed it? Some sources say it was Dallara, then again Haas has his own design team and they've had the use of Ferrari's wind tunnel. It's an intricate web to say the least.

Ben Atathangelou designed the aero on the Haas I believe and is a Haas employee.

Matt · 4 Apr 2016, 13:16 (Ref:3630227)

**Bononi** · 4 Apr 2016, 13:27 (Ref:3630234)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

That's the spirit !

Casper · 4 Apr 2016, 13:36 (Ref:3630239)

Quote:

Originally Posted by veeten

If Haas places another top 10, if not another top 5, then all the other teams will practically scream for a second look at those rules that allowed Haas to assemble his team as he did. The chassis is too well sorted not to be running as it is doing presently.

The one team probably fuming over this is Sauber, whom is feeling like the "jilted lover" being passed over for not only the newest powertrain, but also all the 'goodies' leaving Maranello for Kanapolis.

It is deemed that a new team must not perform well? What a Load of Cr*p. If the rules are changed how many new teams will enter F1? Just because they did a bang up job and are not a shambles Symonds who I am starting to think is a prized DH starts to rant and rave because his team can't get it altogether even with the best customer motor on the grid. He is a loser, pure and simple with some totally stupid ideas that don't deserve consideration at any level.

TrapezeArtist · 4 Apr 2016, 13:54 (Ref:3630245)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

I think there are a lot of red faces from the detractors and doubters and so there should be as they never took Haas to be anything more than another lame American attempt to compete in F1 and now he is beating some of them.

Guilty as charged.

Matt · 4 Apr 2016, 13:57 (Ref:3630246)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

That's the spirit !

I'm gonna love this thread this year.

I'll post a ridiculous 'Merica themed .gif every time they score points because it's fun dammit!

Akrapovic · 4 Apr 2016, 15:28 (Ref:3630272)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Guilty as charged.

*hand up*

I also got my Haas prediction very very wrong!

**bjohnsonsmith** · 4 Apr 2016, 15:47 (Ref:3630277)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

I'm gonna love this thread this year.

I'll post a ridiculous 'Merica themed .gif every time they score points because it's fun dammit!

It is early days. I hope you've got some other gifs other than Hulk Hogan?

Mike Harte · 4 Apr 2016, 15:51 (Ref:3630278)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Ben Atathangelou designed the aero on the Haas I believe and is a Haas employee.

I had been wondering about the staff that Haas had/has been employing, but never got around to satisfying that curiosity. However, your comment prompted me to look up Ben, and surprise, surprise, he joined Haas directly from Ferrari. I seriously wonder how many other of their designers and draughtsmen and women have links to the Scuderia?

Matt · 4 Apr 2016, 16:34 (Ref:3630290)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It is early days. I hope you've got some other gifs other than Hulk Hogan?

Oh, I've got plenty.

Nikki Katz · 4 Apr 2016, 16:47 (Ref:3630295)

I'm enjoying seeing haas being genuinely competitive, but I do feel sorry for the other teams. I don't know what to suggest though, the in-fighting killed off the low budget teams by abandoning the rule changes that were promised to them.

Anyone know if sauber paid their employees March? Sky f1 hinted that they'll struggle to make China

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