IMSA DPi Discussion

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

They would have had they not been subsidizing the entries, just as ALMS would've had more entries if they subsidized the field, but they were smart enough to realize that such is not the smart thing to do.

Actually... that was an option that was on the table and discussed... they chose to spend the money on the Delta Wing instead. Smart? You be the judge.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by BrentJackson View Post
IMSA should throw Rebellion a bone and figure out how to include the R-One into DPi (and also SMP to allow the BR01 to race on, preferably with a five-liter Nissan VK to have the power with the new cars) and once the class is established toss open the chassis rules so that HPD, Gibson, Crawford, Coyote or other players on this side of the Atlantic can jump in, and allow cars to use new engines but without the bodywork. Get in league with the PWC guys and Stephane Ratel and start getting connections built up with the SRO. Let the people the ACO is actively trying to screw over come to IMSA. That's the best one can do now, because LMP1-L is now officially dead and since LMP2 is now a class designed by nepotism, sooner or later they will have explaining to do....

I can see the attractiveness of wanting these guys to come over. But how do you tell them, that you are going to accept their grandfathered and BoP'd cars, while you won't do the same thing for your existing long-term clients? Unfortunately, I think you've got to tell them to get new equipment too, as much as I do like the idea in theory.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I can see the attractiveness of wanting these guys to come over. But how do you tell them, that you are going to accept their grandfathered and BoP'd cars, while you won't do the same thing for your existing long-term clients? Unfortunately, I think you've got to tell them to get new equipment too, as much as I do like the idea in theory.

And whilst it's a great idea in theory, we're FINALLY getting rid of the BoPing of multiple generation/ruleset cars and getting a proper formula again. Why would we jump back into BoPing of rule sets again?

There's also an argument to be made that America has a great engineering culture and history, and its own car culture and world. It shouldn't be propping up an American series by bringing in old generation European cars. It should be trying to push for more American involvement.

I think the old generation cars should be left to AsLMS to allow that a bit of a base to grow. IMSA needs to move forward, not look backwards.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

And whilst it's a great idea in theory, we're FINALLY getting rid of the BoPing of multiple generation/ruleset cars and getting a proper formula again. Why would we jump back into BoPing of rule sets again?

There's also an argument to be made that America has a great engineering culture and history, and its own car culture and world. It shouldn't be propping up an American series by bringing in old generation European cars. It should be trying to push for more American involvement.

I think the old generation cars should be left to AsLMS to allow that a bit of a base to grow. IMSA needs to move forward, not look backwards.

That requires getting rid of or at least opening up the constructors limit - both in P2 and P3. As much as I'm in favor of that, it's not gonna happen anytime soon unfortunately. Dropping or easing the bodywork requirement might be more likely to happen (but don't count on that in the next 2 years either).

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by DeezPutz

Why are you so obsessed with this? We've all moved on. Are you an embittered former Grand Am owner or something?

No. Just a crazy superfan.

[Maelochs]

As afar as "American Involvement ..." Ford is in with its GT program for four years, plus a little NASCAR (which is where most of its ad budget actually works, as opposed to with the sports car stuff.)

GM is pretty well involved in both DPi and GT ...

Which other American car manufacturers are we lacking? Dodge is Fiat ... and Fiat said "No one is watching, even when we win."

Which other American manufacturers should be involved?

Also ... I hope you are aware that the four-car limit was conceived so that the available customer base could hopefully be served with sufficient concentration per factory that there was at least close to some profit to be made selling chassis?

Look at what happened with IndyCar ... Several firms were interested, but to do the car economically, they needed to be sole suppliers. The price at which they could afford to build only a few cars, was far too high for the teams to afford.

Further ... America has "Car Culture," and it is centered around pick-ups and SUVs. What America does not have, is its own "sports car culture."

America has an auto racing culture too ... and whether any of us are willing to admit it, that racing culture is almost entirely centered around NASCAR, and on the local level, around local oval tracks. I wish it weren't so, but ... the only hot little cars one can find anywhere in America are "stanced" rice-burners with fluorescent underlights.

Could an American firm build a good race car? I'd say Pratt and Miller have been answering you for a lot of years. Coyote, Crawford? Elan?

And all the firms which make all the wild variety of oval racers, from stock cars to modifieds to super-mods, to late-model to the huge variety of sprint cars .... U.S. builders are all over the market, making (albeit small) money selling race cars and parts.

As for building prototype sports racers? There isn't much money in it at the higher levels, so most firms simply don't.

Could they? Why not? Engineering is engineering regardless of geography. Any one in any country could build a good anything ... if there was a reason.

There simply aren't enough companies in America which want to go bankrupt selling prototype sports racers.

[Akrapovic]

I'm not talking about necessarily American brands, but the American base of those brands. For example, Mazda in the US - they are not an American brand, but they have such a big following that they have become an almost American brand. HPD are American based. Toyota have a big following in the US and even a solid NASCAR program. You can have these foreign companies involved, but run with American teams and the American branches funding and American advertising, on the new generation of chassis, under the DPi rules.

But I don't think its in IMSAs interest to open up DPi to older generation LMP2s from Europe, just for a short term numbers gain. Develop DPi properly, rather than proper it up with old second hand chassis from Europe.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

As afar as "American Involvement ..." Ford is in with its GT program for four years, plus a little NASCAR (which is where most of its ad budget actually works, as opposed to with the sports car stuff.)

GM is pretty well involved in both DPi and GT ...

Which other American car manufacturers are we lacking? Dodge is Fiat ... and Fiat said "No one is watching, even when we win."

Which other American manufacturers should be involved?

Also ... I hope you are aware that the four-car limit was conceived so that the available customer base could hopefully be served with sufficient concentration per factory that there was at least close to some profit to be made selling chassis?

Look at what happened with IndyCar ... Several firms were interested, but to do the car economically, they needed to be sole suppliers. The price at which they could afford to build only a few cars, was far too high for the teams to afford.

Further ... America has "Car Culture," and it is centered around pick-ups and SUVs. What America does not have, is its own "sports car culture."

America has an auto racing culture too ... and whether any of us are willing to admit it, that racing culture is almost entirely centered around NASCAR, and on the local level, around local oval tracks. I wish it weren't so, but ... the only hot little cars one can find anywhere in America are "stanced" rice-burners with fluorescent underlights.

Could an American firm build a good race car? I'd say Pratt and Miller have been answering you for a lot of years. Coyote, Crawford? Elan?

And all the firms which make all the wild variety of oval racers, from stock cars to modifieds to super-mods, to late-model to the huge variety of sprint cars .... U.S. builders are all over the market, making (albeit small) money selling race cars and parts.

As for building prototype sports racers? There isn't much money in it at the higher levels, so most firms simply don't.

Could they? Why not? Engineering is engineering regardless of geography. Any one in any country could build a good anything ... if there was a reason.

There simply aren't enough companies in America which want to go bankrupt selling prototype sports racers.

I'd say let the market decide, HPD and their most recent flopped P2 is an excellent example of a self regulating market. It's called entrepeneurship. No need for series organizers to restrict to a certain number.

[Matt]

GM was testing the past two days at WGI.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Matt

GM was testing the past two days at WGI.

Indeed they were, the Taylor Bros let us know

https://twitter.com/jordan10taylor/s...22111957114880

[HORNDAWG]

SDR should be announcing in the next few days, so we will find out if it is in a DPi or P2. P2 would seem to fit better as Flis said Visit Florida would like to go to Le Mans and they do bring a good chunk of the budget, so....

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...54745743862193






L.P.

[MagVanisher]

But it looks like that Visit Florida Racing will do DPi and not P2 due to having different body panels (unless I'm proven wrong).

[Matt]

That's their old Corvette DP under the sheet.

[Coach Ep]

Yes. And it also says

"We hope to launch our "New" program in the next couple of days..."

.

[hondafan37]

Healthy progress for IMSA Prototype
http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints...imsa-prototype

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Healthy progress for IMSA Prototype
http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints...imsa-prototype

I think IMSA is going to be a much healthier series in 2017 than the WEC.

[Coach Ep]

Interesting also to read Keating will likely end up doing the ELMS in his P2 in addition to a GTD campaign in WSC, sounds like he wants to compete in a Am top class instead of going head-to-head with the pros back home. The decrease of P1s will surely increase his changes to get a LM invite.

[TF110]

Healthier than the wec? I don't. Daytona and Sebring will be nice, but after that I think they'll leave and the same amount of p2's in imsa will be in the wec.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Interesting also to read Keating will likely end up doing the ELMS in his P2 in addition to a GTD campaign in WSC, sounds like he wants to compete in a Am top class instead of going head-to-head with the pros back home. The decrease of P1s will surely increase his changes to get a LM invite.

He probably will get one of IMSA's 2 auto entries considering he finished 2nd in the GTD standings and Scuderia Corsa already has an auto invite with their win at the 24 last year.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by TF110

Healthier than the wec? I don't. Daytona and Sebring will be nice, but after that I think they'll leave and the same amount of p2's in imsa will be in the wec.

Eh the full season numbers open up a reasonable debate

IMSA / WEC
13 Manufacturers > 5 Manufacturers
P (11 entries) > P1 (5) - Especially if you throw Penske in that mix
GTLM (9/10) > GTE-Pro (8)
GTD (15ish) > GTE-Am (7ish)

WEC P2 will obviously be light years ahead of PC but I am not sure if that is enough to tip the scale. I would also take the IMSA schedule over the WEC schedule (minus Le Mans) any day of the week.

[Coach Ep]

minus Spa!

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Eh the full season numbers open up a reasonable debate

IMSA / WEC
13 Manufacturers > 5 Manufacturers
P (11 entries) > P1 (5) - Especially if you throw Penske in that mix
GTLM (9/10) > GTE-Pro (8)
GTD (15ish) > GTE-Am (7ish)

WEC P2 will obviously be light years ahead of PC but I am not sure if that is enough to tip the scale. I would also take the IMSA schedule over the WEC schedule (minus Le Mans) any day of the week.

I like Spa, Fuji and Le Mans. I can't get too excited for dpi when I know it's going to be bop lottery like GTE/GTLM and they run spec tires. But if they can open it up a little, it could be a home run.

[TzeiTzei]

Originally Posted by TF110

I like Spa, Fuji and Le Mans. I can't get too excited for dpi when I know it's going to be bop lottery like GTE/GTLM and they run spec tires. But if they can open it up a little, it could be a home run.

It's the chassis BoP that bothers me. Balancing the engines would seem to be hard enough, throw the chassis in to the mix and you have a gazillion variables. It could so easily become the same BoP mess that the GT classes are.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

WEC P2 will obviously be light years ahead of PC but I am not sure if that is enough to tip the scale. I would also take the IMSA schedule over the WEC schedule (minus Le Mans) any day of the week.

I would agree. But, they need to dump Long Beach.

[Matt]

Go to Willow Springs instead of Long Beach.