Juan: 'What's all the ******** about Schumi?'

[CVT]

didnt Williams have a championship winning car last year?

[Dani Filth]

Originally posted by Gt_R
On the otherhand, is the competition really weak or did MS make them look weak?

i like this one .. could be

[Red]

Hmm... "If we had the car he had".... That does not bode well at all... WHY, Juan, why don't you have the car they have, mind if I ask? The winning cars don't grow in trees for anyone ro reap.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Wrex
Reading a different forum to me then.

Never had a good team mate, only coz Senna died etc etc etc.

What I meant was, apart from those who're blinkered against him, no-one would say the titles are devalued.

[Gt_R]

but the problem lies with many "blinkered" critics don't think they are A few of them even claim to be the only ones sensible enough to know F1..

[Gt_R]

But back to topic, i think it's more suitable if this session is used to evaluate JPM instead, whom i actually find is a very interesting case.

And honestly, i'm pretty disappointed to see how his career has stalled at this point... although i don't buy all the hype, i actually thought he does have a huge potential to actually make a huge impact to F1 and bring about a level of competitiveness.

And with a good team like Williams, i really can't see how he and Williams team had managed to squander such a good opportunity to challenge MS/Ferrari, esp last season.

Hopefully, next season lives up to our expectations... i never enjoy watching talents going to waste.

[Frank_White]

the point that should be made is:

consider tgf's successin the years that he had the inferior car.

96 3 wins
97 5 wins
98 6 wins

(not to mention numerous podiums)

this is the point that juan misses. many excellent results are possible even with an inferior car. even with an inferior car tgf's greatness shone.

[paddy]

MS always makes the most of what he has. Even during the years where he did not have the best car he maximised his points. JPM and Williams in general seem to be in a habit of minimising their points. Crashes, failures, bad pit stops and disqualifications occur too often. They even left Ralf on his jacks at Spa.
I think they have taken 1 point from the last 6 races. Simply not good enough form the whole team.

[429CJ]

Originally posted by Frank_White
the point that should be made is:

consider tgf's successin the years that he had the inferior car.

96 3 wins
97 5 wins
98 6 wins

(not to mention numerous podiums)

I don't think one can say, that '97 and '98 Ferraris were 'inferior', at least not the way the 2004 Williams is.

[PaulSands]

There is no denying that despite any shenaningans in earlier years he is in 2004 absolutely at the top of his game...probably because he is so relaxed as he really has nothing left to prove

[Mattracer]

[i]Originally posted by Kicking-back [/i

No-one says Schumacher's titles are devalued because Prost or Lauda aren't racing against him [/B]

Or Senna?

[gert]

Originally posted by Frank_White

96 3 wins
97 5 wins
98 6 wins

I agree that the Ferrari was not the best car in the field in these particular years.

Not as good as the Williams in 1996 or 1997, or as the McLaren in 1998.

But I think the word "inferior" is stretching it a bit too far.

Originally posted by Frank_White

this is the point that juan misses. many excellent results are possible even with an inferior car. even with an inferior car tgf's greatness shone.

Of course you have to take into account the differences to the other teams as well.
While Schumacher may not have got the BEST car in 1996, 1997 or 1998, it probably was not just a mid-pack car either.

This years' Williams seems to be just that. A mid-pack car.
I'd rather blame the team than the drivers for that. If not, one driver would consistently outperform the other and I didn't see that happen.

The relative differences between Ralf and JPM are comparable to those of the last 3 years IMO.

What can you do as a driver if the car (or the package?) just isn't okay?

[Speed]

Originally posted by tally-bally-ho
If Juan stopped acting like a 12 year old school bully and started acting like the best professional racing driver in the world, it would be easier to show sympathy with his position.

This guy doesn´t need more sympathy, this guy needs a better car.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Mattracer
Or Senna?

I deliberately left him out, as he hadn't retired. I was just naming a couple of drivers who fought it out in 84 - ie ten years before Schumacher's first title.

[Ralf]

Had a good car last year.
Couldn't win.
Sook up.

[Arai GP5]

On his day, yes, JPM would would win if he had the ferrari. Only thing is, Schumi has about 1 off day a year (Suzuka 03), where as JPM is wasting his brilliance by getting ****ed off at the drop of a hat, and having many an off day.

[climb]

Apart from the car performances, the driver has someone to give, as Fisi is showing.

About that, we have to say that, after catching his 6th title, MS is currently flawless, if he had a slower car he would probably have won less, or even nothing, but in any case his driving style would still be absolutely perfect.

Can we say the same about JPM?

[Damon]

Montoya is at the top of his game this year, shame he doesn't have a car to prove it. I find it strange that there is no mention of Kimi in all of this who has been no where all season until he's finally got a car to do his talent justice. It's difficult to appreciate just how good Schumacher's Ferrari is at the moment, it simply runs on rails while everyone else bounces and scrabbles around for grip. It's impossible to compare and contrast when the playing field is so far from being equal.

Bringing up stats from the early '90's doesn't really hold either. Schu's first ever win only really happened because a quickly closing Mansell developed a misfire. Realiabilty is so good now that it's far more difficult to pick up the odd podium or even then odd win when your car simply isn't up to the job.

I'm glad to see that McLaren seem to have finally found some form again and hope they can carry it through to next year and we can see Juan and Kimi really taking the fight to Schumacher.

[Mattracer]

Yes, I'm sure JPM is starting to feel better now.

[ttc]

Originally posted by Damon
Montoya is at the top of his game this year, shame he doesn't have a car to prove it. I find it strange that there is no mention of Kimi in all of this who has been no where all season until he's finally got a car to do his talent justice. It's difficult to appreciate just how good Schumacher's Ferrari is at the moment, it simply runs on rails while everyone else bounces and scrabbles around for grip. It's impossible to compare and contrast when the playing field is so far from being equal.

Bringing up stats from the early '90's doesn't really hold either. Schu's first ever win only really happened because a quickly closing Mansell developed a misfire. Realiabilty is so good now that it's far more difficult to pick up the odd podium or even then odd win when your car simply isn't up to the job.

I'm glad to see that McLaren seem to have finally found some form again and hope they can carry it through to next year and we can see Juan and Kimi really taking the fight to Schumacher.

[Peter Mallett]

Good post ttc. I've got this feeling of de ja vu ------------ again. ;_

[deeks6]

What game was he talking about - tennis?

He sure ain't driving very well...

[garcon]

Have I told you my deja vu joke? ... :confused:

Er, anyway. I can understand JPM saying what he did, especially (I'm sure) in answer to some very pointed questions. After all, it'd be just wrong if Juan said "Oh yes, Michael is a God and we all worship him!" wouldn't it...

But in truth, it is the whole Ferrari package that is winning races. Yes, they have the best strategic minds to come up with something different to win a race (4 stops in France, now 2 stops at Silverstone, both in races that were "3 stop no-brainers" to nearly everyone else). But they're able to do that because a) they're out in front and can take a risk with little or no pain, b) they've got the best pit crew in the business, c) the Bridgestones might start slow but can then outperform the Michelins for lap after lap, and finally d) they have possibly the only driver out there who can consistently deliver the screaming laps required, when required, to make the strategy work. (A bit of good fortune with traffic helps too...)

Take just one element out of that and they become beatable.

[Damon]

Actually WATCH the races deeks, just because he's not on the telly doesn't mean he's not driving well.

[Peter Mallett]

I agree that this year he is driving to a higher level than before. The griping still dissapoints and is unnecessary.

However the car just isn't competitive.