JPM vs Ralf: Who will have the last laugh?

Led ZeppF1 · 11 Jul 2004, 18:08 (Ref:1033329)

JPM goes to Mclaren : A proven winner. The MP419 B seems promising.

Ralf goes to Toyota : With a big budget, and a chance to do like his old brother i.e build a team around him.

Whose decision is better??

**Craig** · 11 Jul 2004, 18:10 (Ref:1033333)

Montoya is going to be a far bigger success in my mind. Partly due to the choice he has made and partly as he is a far better driver.

300kph · 11 Jul 2004, 19:06 (Ref:1033365)

Mark Webber...

Yoong Montoya · 11 Jul 2004, 19:32 (Ref:1033372)

Definitely Montoya.

f1manoz · 11 Jul 2004, 19:35 (Ref:1033373)

Montoya. Toyota will not be a race winner for a while yet.

Kicking-back · 11 Jul 2004, 19:37 (Ref:1033377)

Montoya

BootsOntheSide · 11 Jul 2004, 19:38 (Ref:1033378)

Toyota won't become regular challengers for a couple of years yet, although I can see them getting podiums next year.

The MP4-19B looks promising, and I can see them building on it with a good 2005 development. If he can gain status in the team alongside Kimi, I think JPM is well set up for the future.

Kicking-back · 11 Jul 2004, 19:45 (Ref:1033386)

And Ron will let JPM and Kimi race each other

Mr V · 11 Jul 2004, 22:16 (Ref:1033503)

Montoya, (but then, i would say that

) looking at the way McLaren seemed to have turned around their season, i bet he can't wait for 2005.

As for Rafe, i don't think that Toyota will get theirselves sorted in the time he will be there, and the fact that he is there may also hinder them. He's quick when he's got a good car underneath him, but slow when he hasn't, plus he seems to let his moral drop when it's not going for him.

Kicking-back · 11 Jul 2004, 22:26 (Ref:1033514)

Thing is, you always know McLaren will come back from a bad patch and usually stronger than before.

Signing for them isn't really a risk.

Ralf · 12 Jul 2004, 00:09 (Ref:1033581)

No contest. Montoya easily!
McLaren are always there abouts.
Depending on how good the car is, could have between 0-20 race wins.

Toyota won't win a race in Ralf's time there.

jj2728 · 12 Jul 2004, 00:20 (Ref:1033586)

Quote:

Originally posted by Led ZeppF1
[B
Whose decision is better?? [/B]

ralf's......he now has the chance to build a team around him and i think he can do it provided there is long term commitment by both he and toyota.....montoya is going to find that having had ralf as a teammate will be nothing compared to having kimi as one....the "iceman" will come out on top.....

deeks6 · 12 Jul 2004, 00:20 (Ref:1033587)

By the time Toyota build a real winner (and they will!), it may be too late for Ralf. Is he good enough anyway? At US$20m a year, he thinks he's a winner.

As for Montoya, it will probably be the same as at Williams ... good car, win a race or 2 when it should win a lot more. I suspect Raikkonnen will be a better bet over race distances.

Will Juan ever learn that natural driving talent alone will not win you a WDC or regular races these days? His obnoxious attitude to teamwork and getting fit will forever hinder his efforts, I think.

So the big winner is ...

Mark Webber - gets a Williams, wins races and maybe ...

Onlooker · 12 Jul 2004, 01:15 (Ref:1033605)

Quote:

Originally posted by Led ZeppF1

Ralf goes to Toyota : With a big budget, and a chance to do like his old brother i.e build a team around him.

Ralf has been to 2 teams and both have not only not gelled around him but have let him trundle off elsewhere,His brother on the other hand has delivered a couple of championships to every team that he has done a full season with. He has been able to convince key technical staff to follow him from one team to another,has comprehensively beaten every team mate that he has had and avoided crashing into his team mate year in year out.

Montoya will have done better out of this but Webber will also be in a handy position as the team will lap him up after the year that they are having with driver disharmony.

Ron is probally more qualified to handle a couple hard nosed frivers ,ala Senna/Prost

JohnSSC · 12 Jul 2004, 02:11 (Ref:1033614)

I think that JPM will do better, absolutely. Kimi would be (imho) the perfect team mate - he just shows up and works hard - no posturing or pretending to be Michael.

Schumi Lite on the other hand (and as has been correctly pointed out) has not done anything in his career to indicate that he can do anything other than to build bad feelings.

Going to Toyota is going to take the team to "the next level" for sure - if you define the "next level" as sulking, pranging your team mate on a regular basis and generally failing to live up to your potential.

If I were CDM or Panis I would be wondering if I would want Schumi Lite as my "team mate."

By inference here if indeed Webber goes to Williams he could well end up doing better than Schumi Lite, at least in the short term. Williams still has more on the ball than whatever it is they are doing at Toyota, Gascoyne's presence notwithstanding.

jetsetter · 12 Jul 2004, 02:30 (Ref:1033626)

JPM's move will be the better of the two as he is going to an organised team where Ralf is going to a team that doesn't appear as though they are going to be a force for quite some time.

gttouring · 12 Jul 2004, 12:01 (Ref:1034050)

even if ralf build the team around him- he doesn't have the same work ethic and charisma his brother has to organize the team as a leader, he seems to be more of "things should be good for me if not its your fault" pout kind of guy. it won't bode well and he may sign the deal an d do well the car has power, he will bring good set ups, but it is toyota and i bet Toyota is itching for a "takuma sato" to be their golden boy anyway
Montoya's disecion was fast and emotional as he is, and the team has now matched its pace of before, so he will slot into it quite well, although he isn't the media cutie that DC is and mercedes may have to clip hi a bit.
and Kimi- well fire and ice won't do too well together but i bet they will race realy fast and stay out of each other way, as far as Mr. dennis is concerned, race each other until... (don't tell me this hasnt happened at maclaren)

ASCII Man · 12 Jul 2004, 12:27 (Ref:1034091)

As long as they don't drive eachother off the track as has happened in the past then they will most probably, if not surely be the best driver combo on the grid next year.

BootsOntheSide · 12 Jul 2004, 13:03 (Ref:1034131)

It's hard to tell whether Montoya or Raikkonen is the better driver - I think both have different strengths and weaknesses, so providing they get on okay and both like the same type of car, it could be a very promising combination.

Not sure why Ralf would do any better gelling a team than he has in the past. He will know that it's his last chance, and he can't really afford to do much wrong to maximise the team's results, which is good motivation, but a lot depends on the choice of team-mate, as Ralf has failed to click with several in the past.

Webber at Williams could be a very good fit.

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