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Old 25 Oct 2013, 10:18 (Ref:3322876)   #31
Chris - Melb
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Holden boss Mike Devereux to leave

I was wondering why I didn't notice him being at Bathurst, you know, Holden supposedly being the most committed to V8 Supercar, etc, etc: http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...025-2w6kn.html

Will he be replaced by a caretaker who will shut Holden down?
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Old 28 Oct 2013, 19:23 (Ref:3324406)   #32
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i find most of the comments in this thread very interesting. As much as i too would love Ford, Holden and Toyota to stay in Aus im sure as hell not happy about paying for them to do it. If these companies cant work out how to make a profit and continue, well bad luck. i understand people will lose jobs but thousnads of other people lose thiers everyday and the taxpayer doesnt help them.

i run a business and if i cant make a profit i go broke and close down, thats not anybodies fault but mine and i shouldnt expect people on this forum or anyother taxpayer to save me. Holden got $275mil and said they wouldnt sack anyone, then sacked 500 and asked for another $500mil. Where does it stop? At least Ford went hands up, mind you that is after who knows how many million of dollars. Cut them loose, let them run thier business like the rest of us and whatever will be will be.
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Old 29 Oct 2013, 00:00 (Ref:3324528)   #33
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i find most of the comments in this thread very interesting. As much as i too would love Ford, Holden and Toyota to stay in Aus im sure as hell not happy about paying for them to do it. If these companies cant work out how to make a profit and continue, well bad luck. i understand people will lose jobs but thousnads of other people lose thiers everyday and the taxpayer doesnt help them.

i run a business and if i cant make a profit i go broke and close down, thats not anybodies fault but mine and i shouldnt expect people on this forum or anyother taxpayer to save me. Holden got $275mil and said they wouldnt sack anyone, then sacked 500 and asked for another $500mil. Where does it stop? At least Ford went hands up, mind you that is after who knows how many million of dollars. Cut them loose, let them run thier business like the rest of us and whatever will be will be.
I can see your point, but like it or not, the car industry requires a bigger picture. It's not just the jobs at GMH/Ford/Toyota that are at risk, but many more jobs at component manufacturers as well. Injection moulders, casting plants, steel supplies, glass supplies, seat manufacturers, lighting, wiring, fasteners, mechanical componentry, etc etc. Some of these businesses are already supporting their local supply to the OEMs by importing raw materials and/or components, but to replace all of that plus the OEM factory labour would be a serious employment issue for this country.

All foreign governments support vehicle manufacture in their home countries; many with more $ per head of population than Australia does. Whilst the number of cars built and sold here has continued to fall, and the number of imports increases, the country as a whole is doing no good at all to its Balance of Payments.

Ford has announced its future, but their exports are small thanks to decisions made in the US not to allow tooling for Falcon/Territory in LHD along with access to markets such as the Middle East. I've already lost my job for a component manufacturer due to falling volumes, but I can quote that 3 years ago Toyota was manufacturing more than 60% of its production as LHD vehicles. Holden also exports vehicles in LHD form to the same ME markets, with added boosters from time to time in exports to the US.

If Holden and Toyota also close, not only does the local vehicle get replaced by a foreign product, but we would also lose one of the countries biggest export earners.
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Old 29 Oct 2013, 03:47 (Ref:3324578)   #34
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Gee, if this trend continues there won't be any taxpayers, so the govt will have to close centrelink and stop medicare......people will have to get on boats in Idonesia to go to China, South Korea and Taiwan to find an income........lotsa luck with your new destinations fellas, I eagerly await video footage of burqhas in Tianamen Square.
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Old 29 Oct 2013, 08:08 (Ref:3324618)   #35
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It's not just cars - locomotives as well Downer EDI (who hold the local EMD -formerly GM, licence) have announced that all locomotive will now be built at an overseas "low cost" plant. Local centres will only do servicing.

And the newest Sydney suburban trains come from China.
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Old 29 Oct 2013, 21:12 (Ref:3324907)   #36
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i run a business and if i cant make a profit i go broke and close down, thats not anybodies fault but mine and i shouldnt expect people on this forum or anyother taxpayer to save me. Holden got $275mil and said they wouldnt sack anyone, then sacked 500 and asked for another $500mil. Where does it stop? At least Ford went hands up, mind you that is after who knows how many million of dollars. Cut them loose, let them run thier business like the rest of us and whatever will be will be.
I don't think you are comparing apples with apples. I might be wrong, but I suspect your business competes with other local business that have a similar cost structure and wage bill to your business.

Australia's car manufacturers have to compete with international competitors with lower cost structures including massively advantageous wage costs.

There is an immediate cost to taxpayers, but there is a long-term, far reaching benefits for taxpayers as well, including adding to the total number of taxpayers as opposed to adding to the numbers on government benefits. Don't forget that multinational companies in other sectors get subsidies as well, but the media doesn't seem to dwell on that fact.

Every other western country subsidises their car industries in one way or another, often far more than Australia does. The major issue in Australia is the diverse car market we have here.
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Old 31 Oct 2013, 04:13 (Ref:3325374)   #37
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http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...urance-on-cars

Good to see the Govt not just rushing in, Both PArent Companys have money, and yes Govts around do deals and tax relief etc , R&D is a big one, but just because a few say we need it, due diligence must be done, TOyo and GM are not short of quid, so I agree with Govt on this one, yes we understand its vital, but, like they did in the states , roll up in private Jets, stay at top notch hotels , then squeal like stuck pigs were are broke, please present a valid plan, dont just ask for handouts. Sack excess management , retain workers , dont need Snr Vice Presidents of bullshit, junior Vice Presidents of Marketing etc etc
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Old 31 Oct 2013, 09:24 (Ref:3325454)   #38
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Car-making inquiry sets March 2014 deadline

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257C1500106011

Note that the date is a couple of weeks AFTER the SA state elections. What odds the findings being bad; ominous...
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Old 31 Oct 2013, 10:25 (Ref:3325479)   #39
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http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257C1500106011

Note that the date is a couple of weeks AFTER the SA state elections. What odds the findings being bad; ominous...
Again the current govt is doing the right thing, not like the past mob who just gave money to anyone who sooked enough, as I have said brefore both Toyo and GM have **** loads of money, just dont want to spend it, but use taxpayer money. Labour playing vote getting, before the election rather than spending tax money wiseley
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Old 31 Oct 2013, 15:54 (Ref:3325555)   #40
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Again the current govt is doing the right thing, not like the past mob who just gave money to anyone who sooked enough, as I have said brefore both Toyo and GM have **** loads of money, just dont want to spend it, but use taxpayer money. Labour playing vote getting, before the election rather than spending tax money wiseley
That just about sums it up perfectly.
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Old 31 Oct 2013, 20:46 (Ref:3325641)   #41
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Again the current govt is doing the right thing, not like the past mob who just gave money to anyone who sooked enough, as I have said brefore both Toyo and GM have **** loads of money, just dont want to spend it, but use taxpayer money. Labour playing vote getting, before the election rather than spending tax money wiseley
Sometimes you have to spend a little money to make a little money.

Comparatively speaking Bernie Ecclestone makes a stack load more money than car manufacturers yet both Labor and Liberal governments have paid him enormous dollars, otherwise the circus doesn't come to town and goes elsewhere instead.

A fair percentage of V8 Supercar races has government funding directly or indirectly.

So spending money on the car industry is no different. Of course there comes a time when the costs outweigh the obvious and not so obvious benefits.

Don't look here if you are a Holden fan: http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...101-2wmlp.html
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Old 31 Oct 2013, 21:01 (Ref:3325652)   #42
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Federal Government Fleet Size... Info Here

Perhaps the FBT laws could be modified to incentivise people to take Australian-made cars instead of imported ones? Reduce the FBT liability by some amount that makes it financially responsible to take a Cruze instead of an i30...

Or just let it all shut down, so we have nothing...
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Old 31 Oct 2013, 22:12 (Ref:3325684)   #43
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Federal Government Fleet Size... Info Here

Perhaps the FBT laws could be modified to incentivise people to take Australian-made cars instead of imported ones? Reduce the FBT liability by some amount that makes it financially responsible to take a Cruze instead of an i30...

Or just let it all shut down, so we have nothing...
Those FBT suggestions make too much sense; there must be a downside but I can't think of anything, other than condemning people to driving renowned s^%*boxes such as the Holden Cruze; how cruel!
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Old 31 Oct 2013, 22:49 (Ref:3325707)   #44
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General Motors are not a good company to make the case for taxpayer handouts to.Worldwide they are a basket case wherever they operate and have been widely described in the US as a pension fund operating under the nominal cover of a manufacturing company.Holden is just another case of the GM worldwide disease.
I could give my theories about why this has occurred but it would just bring abuse from people who want to defend the product . I thought it was telling that when GM bought a big stake in Subaru and industry insiders asked what role they should play in Subaru they all thought GM should be a silent partner who just took their share of the profits because there was absolutely nothing they could teach Subaru about making cars.Of course GM couldn't help themselves and Subaru's innovation has slowed to a crawl in the post GM years.
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Old 1 Nov 2013, 00:17 (Ref:3325749)   #45
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Subaru shall likely become a full subsidiary of Toyota sooner rather than later.. would likely have happened of GFC didnt make itself available.
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