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Old 21 Jun 2006, 00:20 (Ref:1638127)   #16
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Originally Posted by John Turner
cavvy, I have the book; what do you particularly wish to know? (I'm away for a couple days but will have a look upon my return).

It will come as no surprise that these cars are one of my favourites of that period. Lucky for the other manufacturers that as the 6 series was getting a bit long on the tooth, BMW decided not to homologate the 'M' version!
Thanks John.

Were there 50 cars built by the factory or Schnitzer - are they numbered - what is the numbering?
Were GrA 635s built by others in Europe or did they come from
the 'original 50'?
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Old 21 Jun 2006, 07:17 (Ref:1638206)   #17
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Originally Posted by davyboy
Mike Newman's Burlington one was one of my favourites... was he not the last person to race one in the BTCC ?
I'm sure he was the last person to race a 635 in the BTCC, I certainly can't remember any more.
Mike's car was one of the ex BMW UK cars, not sure if it was ex-Weaver or Woodman.
The good thing is that he's still got the car, exactly as it finished the 1987 BTCC season and (very) occasionally rolls it out for a practice day. He's not forgotten how to throw it around the track either!

Last edited by John Turner; 26 Jun 2006 at 08:23.
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Old 21 Jun 2006, 08:24 (Ref:1638248)   #18
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Mike Newman ran his ex BMW GB car in the BTCC from 1985 to 1987. He then tried to sell the car and a new team called DBDA Motorsport intended rinning the car in 1988 but the deal fell through. Mike switched to a Cosworth and decided to keep the 635.Peter Buxtorf was the last person to run a 635 in the BTCC during 1988.This was the ex-Cheylesmore car raced by Stuck/Danner/Hobbs/Palmer in'83 which was then used byDavid Kennedy in Grundig colours before being used by Brian Chatfield/Barry Barnes/Barry Robinson.Buxtorf ran the car in black with different coloured shapes applied over the body at each meeting. The car is now back in its original white with Diners Club International logos and last appeared at Brands in 2005 driven by Alex Elliott.
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Old 21 Jun 2006, 09:37 (Ref:1638306)   #19
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Nice info Ian

More of the same, as much as you like please!!

Blimey Glyn that shot of Weaver is incredible!! Look at the angle that car is pointing at and the smoke coming off the tyres... did Tony Pond have a one off in that car or something?? look like he's yanked on the handbrake or something!!
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Old 21 Jun 2006, 14:46 (Ref:1638452)   #20
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Super thread.

Personal memories:

Stuck early on at Spa 24 in 84
Vojtech / Enge's indecently fast Hartge mount in 83
Stuck / Brun's beautiful Eterna car from 83
Carlo Rossi's valiant efforts for Cibiemme in 86 (inc' 2nd at Spa 24)
That straight 6, right on-cam.
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Old 21 Jun 2006, 15:44 (Ref:1638483)   #21
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Originally Posted by cavvy
Were there 50 cars built by the factory or Schnitzer - are they numbered - what is the numbering? Were GrA 635s built by others in Europe or did they come from the 'original 50'?
In his book, Jeremy Walton says 'More than 50 Group A BMW 635s were assembled and released by BMW Motorsport, most to non-factory teams.'

At the back of the book he explains the numbering sequences. The first was the works prototype E24 AAA-01 which went to Cheylesmore BMW for Hans Stuck to drive in the BTCC. Then he lists E24 RA2-01, but that maybe a printing error since it is out of sequence (maybe it should read E24 RA1-01). Thereafter, he lists E24 RA1-02 to E24 RA1-25 as the 1983 produced cars and E24 RA2-26 to E24 RA2-49 for 1984. All the intervening nos. were allocated but there were 4 numbers where he was unable to identify the client, and they were RA1-24, RA2-27, RA2-32 & RA2-49.
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Old 21 Jun 2006, 16:14 (Ref:1638497)   #22
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Wow, 50 chassis built?

That's some serious race metal shifting!

Compare that with say 6/7 XJS's, 20 odd Vitesses and the odd non Sierra Turbo car prior to the almost one make RS Cosworth/M3 era and this gives us some idea of how seriously BMW Motorsport took the Group A formula at the time.
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 07:57 (Ref:1638837)   #23
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I believe there is one racing in the Classic Touring Race Car Club, he was due to appear in my race at Brands the other week but disappointingly did not make it, looks a nice car in the photos on the CTRCC site.
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 08:14 (Ref:1638846)   #24
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Al, I wonder if that's the car ian beckett referrred to earlier? Who's is it and the colours?

Overall my favourite 635's were the CC Motorsport run BMW GB cars as already mentioned. Weaver was a great draw for the series with his acrobatic driving. His battles in '84 with the Rover's and Frank Sytner's similar car were top value. As a 9 or 10 year old lad I was always dead excited to bve taken to a BTCC round that year just to see what he did!!

It's a shame they didn't continue into the following couple of seasons, but the model was always better suited to long distance events rather than the sprint format IMO. Got a feeling the Goodyear's that CC did a deal to run weren't perhaps as good as Pirelli's that Sytner and the crack Euro teams favoured.

This maybe a topic to explore a little within the thread because I could never understand how a car with roughly 100bhp more than the Rover in standard trim could be so utterly outclassed as a pukka race car?!

I'd guess that's because the Vitesse was the equivalent to BMW's M version as alluded to by John Turner earlier in the thread and as John says if Munich had homologated that car (did a hack ever run?) then things might have been very different.....

What can be said is that the 635 offerred a competitior brilliant reliability and a genuinely competitive car over longer distances and people were obviously prepared to pay a reasonable amount for them because Mr Sytner once said 'that it was like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut' As the cars weren't all that cheap to run?
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 09:01 (Ref:1638868)   #25
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Originally Posted by chunterer
This maybe a topic to explore a little within the thread because I could never understand how a car with roughly 100bhp more than the Rover in standard trim could be so utterly outclassed as a pukka race car?!

I'd guess that's because the Vitesse was the equivalent to BMW's M version as alluded to by John Turner earlier in the thread and as John says if Munich had homologated that car (did a hack ever run?) then things might have been very different.....
The racing 635CSi gave no more power than the European spec road going M6. The racer had 285 bhp to the M road car's 286 bhp, and the latter developed its peak power at higher revs, and accelerated faster to 60mph, would you believe! Those extra 12 valves make such a difference. I can smugly confirm that even now, as a road car, this is still a highly sonorous rocket ship! Now we know that the M engine could be tweaked to well over 100bhp per litre although I don't know what engine restrictions, if any, applied to Group A. However, you can safely say that had they gone down that route, an 'M' racer would have been giving substantially more than its CSi sibling. Do we know what the power output of the racing Vitesse was, Chunty?

I don't think a 'hack' racing M6 was ever built, although BMW did build a special road going M6 for Nelson Piquet, which gave 320 bhp. Just to clarify BMW didn't homologate the 'M' version because as well as getting 'old', they didn't build 5000 of them in any one year which was the the requirement of that time.

Last edited by John Turner; 22 Jun 2006 at 09:03.
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 09:03 (Ref:1638871)   #26
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Gentleman Jim

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Originally Posted by David Towe
I had the very great pleasure of owning the ex JPS Team 635 that won the Australian Touring Car Champiopnship for a while and loved it. The wife unfortunately hated it and in order to keep her off my back and keep the JPS Team M3, I sold the 635.
We only took it to a couple of meetings but the crowd was always drawn to it. Fathers could be heard saying to their children, "I remember when....." or "I saw this thing win at...... when I was your age".
Jim Richards won every race in all 6 rounds of the Amscar series in 1985 in the car, such was it's dominance here. Jim actually rang me recently trying to buy the car back, too late. The car has now gone to a new home where the owner has the money to fully restore it, sadly something I couldn't afford to do.
A true classic in every sense of the word, I feel privelidged to have raced it.
Great post Dave

One thing I have always wondered is why you don't tend to see Jim at Historic meetings....I suppose its because his program is a full one. I'm sure you would agree with me that no matter who owns the car it would be absolutely fantastic to see Jim back behind the wheel wringing its neck one more time
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 11:26 (Ref:1639011)   #27
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Great post Dave

One thing I have always wondered is why you don't tend to see Jim at Historic meetings....I suppose its because his program is a full one. I'm sure you would agree with me that no matter who owns the car it would be absolutely fantastic to see Jim back behind the wheel wringing its neck one more time
Jim is chasing one of the Mobil M3s that is now in NZ. It was originally built by JPS but never raced in thier colours. The asking price is $120K. I hope he gets it and comes to play with us, I'd love to say I was beaten by "Gentleman Jim".
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 11:38 (Ref:1639027)   #28
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Chunter, the one running in CTRCC is white and covered with small blue decals.
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 11:53 (Ref:1639036)   #29
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The 635 raced in the national championships of Great Britain ,France,Germany,Belgium,Italy,Scandinavia.Australia,New Zealand and Japan.They had individual race wins but generally were unsuccessful in winning championships.Their main stomping ground was in the European Touring Car series where their reliability and sheer numbers brought much success. The only 'proper' World Touring Car championship in'87 saw the car being largely replaced by the M3,this being a pukka race car rather than the 635 which was essentially an executive cruiser which BMW turned into a successful race car out of neccessity.The 635 also ran in hillclimbs,rallies and even rallycross in France and a couple are still having fun on the Canary Islands even now.In fact both cars are for sale,so come on get those piggy banks open!! The car also had limited success in Group N but again was rather too heavy and underpowered for greater things. The cars also raced in Group 2 trim from 1980 where the cars had deeper air dams and large wheel arches and also ran 'down under' to local regulations before the Group A reg's became the norm the world over.The largest number of 635's in any one race was 22 for the 1984 Monza ETC although it has to be said that the Bulgarian entry(yes really did not appear;it did exist however!).The car was only eclipsed for sheer numbers by the M3 which is another story.People seem surprised by the numbers of cars produced but remember that BMW had a serious competitions department,BMW were growing rapidly into the popular marque that they are today and also that BMW had a long tradition of racing their products.The car was also easy for the privateer to build(I remember a car actually being completed,not repaired in the Donington paddock in 1984,a Bavaria Automobiles car).To a competent mechanic the cars would have been easy to build because BMW Motorsports provided a set of parts rather like an outsized plastic model!!

Last edited by ian beckett; 22 Jun 2006 at 11:59.
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 11:58 (Ref:1639040)   #30
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Yes that is the ex-Cheylesmore car I described earlier. Just imagine, the cars first four ever drivers were Stuck/Danner/Hobbs?palmer,not too shabby any of them!
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