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Old 22 Jun 2006, 14:05 (Ref:1639126)   #31
jonners
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Munich Legends sometimes have their Bastos car on display in their showroom - absolutely beautiful - alloy (bolted in) rollcage (fabricated by Matter, I think) with adjustable joints to take up the slack as the bodyshell 'relaxes'....

One point that people often forget about these cars is that they really didn't weigh as much as you'd think.

A few years ago I had to drive to Southampton and back to London on a daily basis so 'borrowed' my father's M6....I discovered a fantastic road between Winchester and Farnham and had a ball on the way home each evening...the right noise, the right power...felt like 20 laps of Spa...

Another highlight for me (this is a great thread) - anyone remember those classic Autosport covers when Schnitzer kept winning the Spa 24 hrs? Race patina has always looked good on a great saloon - I'm going to frame some of those covers one day....
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 14:55 (Ref:1639153)   #32
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Originally Posted by ian beckett
Yes that is the ex-Cheylesmore car I described earlier. Just imagine, the cars first four ever drivers were Stuck/Danner/Hobbs?palmer,not too shabby any of them!
I worked at Cheylesmore Garage when tha 635 was racing. I had to pick up a very beefy anti-roll bar (From Nick Grace near Evesham I think) before the '83 British GP ( I was Marshalling then-still do) where Hans Stuck was racing the car. Hans said the cars shell was not 100% after a shunt in Germany and described the shell as a banana!
Another driver for us was the kiwi whose only win in F3 was at a wet Mallory Park.....Who remembers his name?
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 20:32 (Ref:1639360)   #33
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The Cheylesmore(a Coventry BMW dealer?) car was a works test machine loaned by the factory to get a presence in the UK and was run by Bob Sparshott Automotive(BSA) on behalf of Cheylesmore.It was probably replaced by a brand new version later in the season?Perhaps this followed Stucks comments about it being banana shaped? I only have the following results for the car/team...Silverstone GP support race-Stuck 5th; Donington-Stuck 2nd;Brands-Stuck 3rd;Silverstone-Palmer 5th and Silverstone ETC,Danner/Hobbs retired with blown engine. I have no knowledge of a New Zealander racing the car and the only driver who fits the bill as you describe is Brett Riley?? At the end of the '83 season,Stuck/Palmer/Soper ?neve were considered for the drive but it eventually went to David Kennedy for '84,again run by BSA and as mentioned earlier sponsored by Grundig International and Penthouse(not that I remember much bare flesh as I followed the team hopefully around the country!!).
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 21:54 (Ref:1639418)   #34
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Originally Posted by ian beckett
The Cheylesmore(a Coventry BMW dealer?) car was a works test machine loaned by the factory to get a presence in the UK and was run by Bob Sparshott Automotive(BSA) on behalf of Cheylesmore.It was probably replaced by a brand new version later in the season?Perhaps this followed Stucks comments about it being banana shaped? I only have the following results for the car/team...Silverstone GP support race-Stuck 5th; Donington-Stuck 2nd;Brands-Stuck 3rd;Silverstone-Palmer 5th and Silverstone ETC,Danner/Hobbs retired with blown engine. I have no knowledge of a New Zealander racing the car and the only driver who fits the bill as you describe is Brett Riley?? At the end of the '83 season,Stuck/Palmer/Soper ?neve were considered for the drive but it eventually went to David Kennedy for '84,again run by BSA and as mentioned earlier sponsored by Grundig International and Penthouse(not that I remember much bare flesh as I followed the team hopefully around the country!!).
Yes Cheylesmore Garages were based in Coventry and BSA ran the show. We had Dave (Beaky) Simms, Ex Lotus and Hesketh, based in our Showroom!
No...Brett Riley did not drive the car.but he did win an F3 race with a Dolomite engine which is moe than can be said for his team mate whose name escapes me.........
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Old 23 Jun 2006, 02:04 (Ref:1639491)   #35
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635's

Regarding Jim Richards racing in classic meetings, both he and Robbie Francevic raced in the Dunedin (NZ) Road Race in February this year, JR in one of his old 635's and RF in a Schnitzer M3. They have both indicated that they would like to compete again next year. I agree that the 635's were fantastic looking cars and I occasionaly get to race against the one listed above.
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Old 23 Jun 2006, 07:01 (Ref:1639554)   #36
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Interesting subject. BMW in fact built 89 635 Group A cars / kits. The first 33 of which were RA1, these were based more on the production components, suspension legs etc....RA2`s were more like racing cars with a lot of special parts.
The reason they became more competetive again in 1986 was partly due to a new cylinder head that was homologated raising the output from approx 300 to 315 bhp.
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Old 23 Jun 2006, 09:15 (Ref:1639612)   #37
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Hi Alex, Knowing so much about the marque in question would I be right in assuming your second name is Elliott?...

Power output brings me back to John's question about the Vitesse output.

The standard road car had 190 bhp (although there were rumours that it was actually well over the 200 mark!) and the Grp A version put out about 290 to begin with and by the end iof TWR's ETC days it was somewhere between 320-350 bhp I think?

So as you say John, the road going Bimmer was plenty powerful enough and the M version would likely have been mighty powerful in race trim. By law of deductions we must assume that if it was homologated it could've been 350 or even upto 400 horses may have been possible?!!

I guess the advantage the Rover had in sprint trim was engine torque as BHP was roughly similar?

Stone Man you sound like quite an interesting and important person of the era, more of your stories most welcome. Both ian and yourself have confirmed the ex BSA/Cheylesmore car.

You guys may help on another front. BSA was the F2 team run by Bob Sparshott and Mike Young IIRC. Now was Mike the same guy that pedalled Angleboxes so well in the 60's? You also mention a guy who supplied a cage for the 635 from the Evesham area called Nick Grace?

Well I was in Pershore a while back on business and ended up speaking to a guy who fixes classic motorbikes, somehow we got onto the subject of touring cars (possibly because Dynamics are on the same ind est). It transpired that he used to be a major part of several touring car outfits from the 60's-80's and we were talking about Yogi Muir who I think had a go in this car and the likes of Andy Rouse etc... He mentioned a 'works' BMW/team was based with him or he had something to do with years back and I wonder if Nick, the BS 635 and Pershore/Evesham are all linked?

Folks this is turning into a fabulous thread, long may it continue

Last edited by chunterer; 23 Jun 2006 at 09:18.
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Old 23 Jun 2006, 09:33 (Ref:1639634)   #38
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yes you are right about the name.
It was Ted Grace in Pershore, I think they were the UK Alpina inporters for a while & did all the BMW race cars in the UK for quite a while, even going back to the CSL era I think.
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Old 23 Jun 2006, 10:30 (Ref:1639666)   #39
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Originally Posted by Alex E
yes you are right about the name.
It was Ted Grace in Pershore, I think they were the UK Alpina inporters for a while & did all the BMW race cars in the UK for quite a while, even going back to the CSL era I think.
Yes, didn't Ted Grace run Frank Sytners 635? (Although ostensibly Sytners ran the car themselves).
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Old 23 Jun 2006, 10:33 (Ref:1639669)   #40
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This is an ex-Sytner car that made its way to Australia in the hands of Charlie O'Brien and the Erle McRae motorsport equipe...



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Old 23 Jun 2006, 10:33 (Ref:1639671)   #41
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Originally Posted by Alex E
BMW in fact built 89 635 Group A cars / kits. The first 33 of which were RA1, these were based more on the production components, suspension legs etc....RA2`s were more like racing cars with a lot of special parts.
Alex can you clarify this, for us, please? If there is a continuous number sequence running between RA1 and RA2, (ie RA2-26 follows on from RA1-25) where/how do these extra numbers fit in? Given your knowledge on the precise numbers built, can you identify the extras by chassis no./client?
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Old 23 Jun 2006, 10:52 (Ref:1639689)   #42
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Yes Viva, I seem to recall Sytners car was prepared/run by Ted Grace (although I hadn't realised he was based in Pershore as Alex says).

Ted Grace had a long term association with Brian Yogi Muir (who partnered Frank and someone in the BS car IIRC), and as Alex E says going back to the CSL days (which is also what this guy I spoke to talked about) would probably confirm/explain the link bewtween touring car Bimmers, a man named Grace and this knowledgeable guy I was talking to in Pershore!!!!

It's a shame I didn't make a proper note to get hold of the guys details with that motorbike shop, he'd probably be a decent source of touring car history!! He's probably still there so I ought to pop over again and see if he'd like to become a member!!

Nice pics GTR Magic, Sytner ran two cars in 1984. One was his original from ;83 whicj I think got stacked at an '84 BTCC round and a newer car which he ran for the rest of the season and into '85 I think. David Sutherland (one of Frank's old S2000 rivals) drove the rebuilt older car for the last couple of BTCC rounds in '84. I think this is the car in your pics?

Alex, as John says if you've got further info on the 635 builds it would be good.
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Old 23 Jun 2006, 10:54 (Ref:1639690)   #43
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Originally Posted by Alex E
yes you are right about the name.
It was Ted Grace in Pershore, I think they were the UK Alpina inporters for a while & did all the BMW race cars in the UK for quite a while, even going back to the CSL era I think.
BTW which name... Elliott, Young or Grace??!!
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Old 23 Jun 2006, 11:06 (Ref:1639705)   #44
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Originally Posted by chunterer
Nice pics GTR Magic, Sytner ran two cars in 1984. One was his original from ;83 whicj I think got stacked at an '84 BTCC round and a newer car which he ran for the rest of the season and into '85 I think. David Sutherland (one of Frank's old S2000 rivals) drove the rebuilt older car for the last couple of BTCC rounds in '84. I think this is the car in your pics?
Sytner also ran two cars at both of the British ETCC races in 85- the second was for John Clark/Hamish Irvine at Donington, and a couple of South African drivers , Tony Viana and Nicolo Bianco for the TT. (4 South African drivers came over for the TT- the other pair drove a Terry Drury Alfa GTV6)
Sytner shared his regular car with Michel Delcourt at Donington and John Clark at Silverstone.

Depending on when the ex-Sytner car arrived in Australia, could he have even had a third car at some time? (think there was a thread on ex-Sytner 635's a while back?)

Last edited by KA; 23 Jun 2006 at 11:10.
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Old 23 Jun 2006, 11:18 (Ref:1639716)   #45
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Good one KA, a pretty full explanation of Sytner 635 activity!

The South Africans may well have been on sussing out European touring car racing to see if they fancied coming over for more regular outings (they didn't!)

I also recall that Viana was a Bimmer man at home (random pics of Green and Black wild looking SATC 535is spring to mind) this also probably explains the drives.

They may also have been hoping that Group A regs would be adopted for their home series in which case he might have been looking at buying it, I don't know?

John Clark had a Bee-em dealership and ran a prodsaloon 635 I think, so again he may have been contemplating stepping up to BTCC? (He did in the end with an M3)
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