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Old 24 Jun 2007, 09:46 (Ref:1945379)   #16
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Tincorna should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I found this photo of the Rallycross Holden;



It's Jaques Frantzen (sp?) from 1991
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Old 24 Jun 2007, 10:15 (Ref:1945403)   #17
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While on the subject and I have often thought if dropping a small block chevy into a late Carlton or Omega shell and race it as a Holden Commadore, are they basically the same?
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Old 24 Jun 2007, 10:17 (Ref:1945406)   #18
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Originally Posted by KA
that's the part that I've been wondering about- apart from O'Brien's ex-Grice VK in the BTCC there were at least 3-4 European-based VLs active in Europe in 87. I'm interested by what you said about TWR's brace of VKs and VLs- is that 2 of each, and if so where did they come from

I'd assume an organisation like TWR would have built it's own cars rather than buying them in, but why the VKs? I've got a very vague memory of a picture in Autosport showing a plain white VK with a TWR susnstrip on the windscreen, maybe in late 86, and we know they ran a VL in one 1987 race

This is a total guess, but if they had a brace of both VKs and VLs, could TWR have bought a pair of VKs in late 86 (possibly the ex-HDT 'European' pair?), to get to know the car and run initial testing while building their own VLs for the abortive 1987 WTCC campaign?

Once they'd pulled the plug on the WTCC project, there's no reason why they couldn't have been sold on- TWR obviously kept a VL, the blue/yellow car which appeared at the 'Ring, and then presumably became the prototype 'TWR' VL in 88, but the others being sold on could account for the Serge Power cars etc....
Given that TWR had taken over the HDT's job of building special vehicles for Holden... I doubt an HDT car went to TWR

I can recall reading in Auto Action down here (when it was actually pretty good) that Mr Small of Roadways was asked to supply VK carby engines to TWR for them to base their '87 engine package on. Whether that actually happened is not totally clear.

Holden Motorsport would supply racing shells for teams down here, no reason to think they wouldnt supply them to Europe as well...
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Old 24 Jun 2007, 11:55 (Ref:1945464)   #19
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Originally Posted by Tincorna
I found this photo of the Rallycross Holden;



It's Jaques Frantzen (sp?) from 1991
brilliant- the colourscheme is a match for the pic I posted a link to earler, so you've confirmed the date and driver, which I didn't have
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Old 24 Jun 2007, 16:46 (Ref:1945579)   #20
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Eddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridEddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Just so that you have the proper name: Jaak Franssen.
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Old 24 Jun 2007, 19:07 (Ref:1945670)   #21
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Originally Posted by Eddy V
Just so that you have the proper name: Jaak Franssen.
Wasn't there another driver who drove the Commodore as well as Franssen- either the season before, or the seaon after?
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Old 24 Jun 2007, 19:44 (Ref:1945685)   #22
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Eddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridEddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yes there were. A few seasons Paul Kumpen (former Peka Racing boss, now GLPK Racing) drove that car and then for one other season a clubracer tried it. Guess they were all before Franssen.
Kumpen then went on to circuit racing, as he'd won everything else in RC.
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Old 24 Jun 2007, 19:58 (Ref:1945691)   #23
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Originally Posted by Eddy V
Yes there were. A few seasons Paul Kumpen (former Peka Racing boss, now GLPK Racing) drove that car and then for one other season a clubracer tried it. Guess they were all before Franssen.
Kumpen then went on to circuit racing, as he'd won everything else in RC.
I knew Kumpen was involved with the car, but had forgotten he'd driven it- didn't he also drive a Quattro and a 6R4 in the ERC, with the same Car Glass backing as the Commodore?

I've just found a couple of photos of it at another Lydden ERC round, in which it doesn't seem to have the full TWR bodykit- the bonnet has the smaller air intake used on the 1987-spec VL, and it may have the smaller VL rear spoiler- difficult to tell from the camera angle, and it's not a particularly good photo. I'll scan one and post it later
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Old 24 Jun 2007, 20:31 (Ref:1945715)   #24
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Eddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridEddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I know about the 6R4, don't remember the Audi. I've never been that much involved in rallycross, even if the track is only 15 miles away.

The first owner of Car Glass was a personal friend and fellow businessman of Kumpen, hence the permanent sponsorship over the years in RC and circuit racing.
I guess they still have some sponsorship on their cars now, whatever they run at the moment.


The picture of the white Holden in your post 4 was the one I mentioned being run by a private team, but it had many different guises.
I think Kumpen bought that one as well afterwards and ran it himself.
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Old 25 Jun 2007, 02:20 (Ref:1945928)   #25
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Originally Posted by KA

http://www.ricwood.com/holden_spec.htm[/URL]

The earlier car sold to Peter Barnes is interesting though- didn't know about that one, but I'm intrigued over how much earlier a model it is...
The 'earlier car' you refer to was an ex-MHDT 1984 VK Group C that Cleland ran in ThunderSaloons. That car is now back in Australia.
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Old 25 Jun 2007, 05:37 (Ref:1945993)   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Weyman
While on the subject and I have often thought if dropping a small block chevy into a late Carlton or Omega shell and race it as a Holden Commadore, are they basically the same?
The Commodore is longer and wider than the Omega it was based on, and the floorpan was recycled from the earlier generation (78-87).
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Old 25 Jun 2007, 06:09 (Ref:1945999)   #27
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Originally Posted by Camaroz
The 'earlier car' you refer to was an ex-MHDT 1984 VK Group C that Cleland ran in ThunderSaloons. That car is now back in Australia.
Thanks- I knew some of it's UK history but didn't realise that car had passed through Ric Wood's hands.
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Old 25 Jun 2007, 09:19 (Ref:1946119)   #28
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racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by KA
that's the part that I've been wondering about- apart from O'Brien's ex-Grice VK in the BTCC there were at least 3-4 European-based VLs active in Europe in 87. I'm interested by what you said about TWR's brace of VKs and VLs- is that 2 of each, and if so where did they come from
In the early part of 1987 Channel 7 in Australia ran a few stories detailing what was happening in the lead up to the opening WTCC round (the first two ATCC rounds occurred before the WTCC started, and this was when all the controversy over Bernie was erupting).

Included in a story shown during the first ATCC round at Calder (March 1), Richard Hay (who was down here to commentate on the first two ATCC rounds for Channel 7) did a story on what was happening, amongst others who were entering, and it includes an interview with Win Percy, saying that TWR hadn't told him the plans yet, but Hay says that a pair of TWR Commodore's were planned for Walkinshaw/Percy & Jeff Allam/Denny Hulme. Included in this part of the story is a brief piece of footage of the TWR workshop, with a bunch of Commodore's (both VKs & VLs, 4 or 5 in total) visible, thats where i got the 'brace' from.

This is from memory, i'm curious now, i'll get the tape out and have a proper look


On the Serge Power cars, as GTR mentions Holden Motorsport would likely happily have provided shells to anyone, but would the likes of Serge Power have built their own cars?
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Old 25 Jun 2007, 11:27 (Ref:1946217)   #29
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Eddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridEddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Serge Power did not build a Holden or any other car for that matter, bar the very very odd one, as he was an engine builder. And a very good one for that matter.

The Holdens were race ready when they bought them. None of the Holdens came from down under.
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Old 25 Jun 2007, 12:20 (Ref:1946260)   #30
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Originally Posted by Eddy V
The Holdens were race ready when they bought them. None of the Holdens came from down under.
ALL the Holdens came from Down Under.... originally... *
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