John Webb's race promotions!

[The SpeCTator]

John Webb was a promoter who could lay on a GP in six weeks or launch a new race series. He beleived in ENTERTAINMENT for the paying public, witness the ShellSport Escort Mexico's. Each race winner of the day at Brands at selected meetings got a free drive at the end of the day in these indentical cars. I made for a great end to the days sport and kept his panel beaters in work till the following weekend!

[Stephen Green]

I agree that he was in the entertainment business and did some very good things, I was one who used to go and watch. I would say however, that putting on a GP back then bears little or no resemblance to doing the same thing today.

And may I say a warm welcome to ten-tenths even though you have been a member for almost a year but only posted now

[Thundersports]

Jp does indeed consult with Mr Webb
ps first season of Formula First was in 1987 and won by little Ben Edwards

[driftwood]

Webby did the business
Pity JP doesnt ask him for advice for BH !!
F 1st cars are ugly FForwards where sensible cars
biggest winner was VD for making them

[Stephen Green]

Hmmm see the post above yours!

[driftwood]

I said pity he does not consult about BH
when was thelast time u went to BH? dont see any Webb ideas there
he does consultation for his corporate school days

[Stephen Green]

As Brands Hatch is my local circuit and I marshal about 30 days a year there, quite often to answer your question. As Jonathan Palmer owns Brands Hatch and also has contact with John Webb as adviser I don't quite see your point?

[driftwood]

having raced there for 20 years and been going since 1974 i cant see any of Webbs entertainment ideas flowing thru since The Dr took over with tracke rental at ski high prices the racer pasy thru the nose for teh plreasure of driving his rac ecar there and the punters on the other sod eof teh catch fencing pay £12 to watch and get poor value
a lot was said by JP when he took BH circuits over that he would put back into motorsport etc etc give value for ££ but as 1 high ranking club offical said to me last year BH is very expensive to hire/promote a race at and sadly u have to include it in yr c/ship and make a loss on that venue

There is NO reason why JP cannot give free or £1 entry to all club events and im sure he would get more bums in seats at these events and probably these people would pay £10-20 for the BTCC race etc
he gets more bums in seats shops get more punters thru the door/till bar sells more food etc
racers get more spectators to enhance sponsorship proposals

as yr not a racer u probably dont know that its cheaper to go testing at BH than it is to dO a 10 LAP RACE THERE!!
i can test for 4x 20 mins session for £200= with no track stoppages 60-80 laps
10 lap race 10 mins practise £200 upwards track time 20 laps maybe 25 at most

There are no MSV c/ships he pinched the traditional BRSCC winter warmers dates from them and ran his FPA winter events with a few clubby races
no champion of Brands Fford races the past 2 seasons

I know the world has changed since 1974 and i wore short trousers but Webby/ BH had ideas to get car races going as we have discussed earlier
JP has done what?
IF webb is giving some advice JP doesnt seem to be listening

[Andrew Kitson]

He did start an MSV FF championship did he not? Very few entries though and it was canned - entry fees?

[Stephen Green]

I spoke to MSV myself regarding the old J Webb ideas such as £1 race days etc and the fact is they don't pay. As you rightly say much has changed since 1974 (about the time I started to watch racing at Brands too), the worst of all being security and Health & Safety. MSV will point out that if they go ahead with days like this they have to employ lots of extra gate staff, security staff, litter staff etc etc. You should also remember that whilst the catering outlets may do well, they are not owned by the circuit.

[driftwood]

I spoke to MSV myself regarding the old J Webb ideas such as £1 race days etc and the fact is they don't pay.im sure this is the standard argument to put forward BUT hav ethey tried 2 or 4 days yet? look at the Sun Free days etc? or the BBC radio 1 days ok someone possibly underwrote the gate ££ but even the CSMA take a race weekend and give all the staft tickets for a race meeting and car dealers bring in trade stands for the weekend
As you rightly say much has changed since 1974 (about the time I started to watch racing at Brands too), the worst of all being security and Health & Safety.ironic at a race meeting where motor racing i snow safe and sex is dangerous! MSV will point out that if they go ahead with days like this they have to employ lots of extra gate staff, security staff, litter staff etc etc. Yes ive heard that argument but i wonder if he is even getting gate $$ to cover the wages for the feeble level he gets at club races
You should also remember that whilst the catering outlets may do well, they are not owned by the circuit.yes the poor bstds have to pay high rental fees get poor customer numbers so charge £1.30 for a cup of tea in a plastic cup!! i personally prefer to die of thirst!
Just had discussion with F3 engineer doing A1 GP i asked about the NZ race he said they had many faces but he didnt know how many paid as they where giving out tickets that week in the town but im sure it looked busy on TV and the people all spend money somewhere
IF yr mate said come to BH to see some car races and it was £12 would u go or do u call yr race buddies to ponce a ticket?
IF it was a quid no debate and u would go more often im sure and have a pint and aburger maybe buy a T shirt book photo model etc a su have the £11 in your pocket- u could even drag along some "race virgins" for the £1 and maybe get them hooked

[Steve Wilkinson]

John Webb also introduced the concept of Season Tickets. When they were available I always got one for Oulton Park as by the start of August it had paid for itself - just taking basic admission charges into account (you also got free admission to the Paddock for all meetings!)

However the money was paid up front in January so BHD had the dosh to play with.

There were a hard core of regulars that you saw at every meeting and when they stopped the promotion I started going to just selected meetings and probably spent less in the season at the circuit as a result!

I personally would not be interested in a season ticket in future as I have moved away from circuit racing but it would be well worth considering.

[driftwood]

yes season ticket is a great idea gives the circuit up front ££ and u make sure u go often
i have the UGC cinema card @ £11 per month
only need to go 3 times per month and im in front but then i have seen some pretty bad films and not needed to whinge about it like i would if i paid £5 per film!

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

IF it was a quid no debate and u would go more often im sure and have a pint and aburger maybe buy a T shirt book photo model etc a su have the £11 in your pocket- u could even drag along some "race virgins" for the £1 and maybe get them hooked

Same up here near Snett - I know many locals who have never been - only to the market, as that is what 'Snetterton' means to them. When I tell them most meetings are £12 or £25 for BTCC they suck air through teeth. The boredom they see which is F1 on TV is motor racing to them. Despite my usual defence of it being different to that, close racing, loads of hours of track action, free access to see the cars close up etc etc, they still think the £30/£40 whatever-it-is to go and watch Norwich City lose over 90 mins is better value.

Get them in for a couple of quid, or whole family as a car load for a fiver and as drifty says they may then think it is great value and tell their friends, workmates. Get JP to install some swings, slide, roundabout for the kids, as we know they get bored easily. All the tracks had them when I was a kid, even Snett. ( Infact I remember chatting to this young kid same age as me in the 60s on the swings and he said his dad was Graham Hill and his name was Damon! ) I swear some Snett clubbies last year seemed to have about 50 spectators and they were probably friends and family of competitors.

[driftwood]

Andrew I totally agree with yr comments
its about time the circuit owners read the thread!!

when i was racing karts at Blackbush on the sunday the women folk would wander off to the sunday market for an hour or so which gave the men folk some peace and they wome where doubly entertained!

[Dan Rear]

Steady on Andrew, Canaries won their last match, and have a big 'un tomorrow. I fear the worst tho'...

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

Steady on Andrew, Canaries won their last match, and have a big 'un tomorrow. I fear the worst tho'...

And just exactly what sport do these small cage birds play?

[driftwood]

London museums used to charge
when they became free the number of people of then visited quadrupled therfore justifying their existance
Race tracks should be the same way

[GORDON STREETER]

When I was doing the ICS series with TOCA I was always being asked for tickets. I would normally give them to mates with a family, as even 10 or more years ago a big meeting would cost at least £100 00 by the time that they had all had their burgers/drinks plus entry fees . So gate prices will keep people away. On the other hand most families will only go to big meetings with all the razamataz ! They might as well let people in for nothing at clubbie events as most "spectators" are normally with the drivers,and the gate money must be a pittance .

[driftwood]

thats my whole argument
free races and charge for biger races
look at brookland sin the 1930 HUGE crowds
even 1960-70`s races had decent crowds
ok people work nights weekend shifts now and dint do then
also more recreational activities misc sports like mountain biking hang gliding that where not around then that take people off in different directions

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

ok people work nights weekend shifts now and dint do then

Drifty, I beg to differ! My grandfather worked shifts between the wars and right up until the early 1960s my father worked on a Saturday morning!

In fact my father used to take his holidays when the car racing was on in the Isle of Man - the Mannin Mohr etc - as this was the only way he could get to see racing!

When I started work in he late 60s I started on shifts and it wasn't until the mid-70s when I moved jobs that I went onto days only. Even then there was a lot of pressure on for me to work Saturdays.

I would have thought now-a-days with Flexi-time and the such-like that there was a better chance of large numbers of spectators.

[Andrew Kitson]

Trouble these days there are too many other things that people can do - football on Sundays, shopping malls open, Sunday markets, DIY stores,films to watch at home on TV or DVD (not just when one of 3 available TV stations decided to broadcast them as in the sixties), plus zillions of other TV channels, pubs and restaurants open all day, Cinema...etc etc.

The draw at a race circuit has to be very good to tempt people away from the above, especially the petrolhead husband persuading the wife and kids to come for the day. Hence why some events such as Goodwood always will have massive crowds because the whole thing is sensational and a great experience due to the quality on show. Someone who has been once wants to go back again. The average clubbie will never match that, so throw the gates open to get more in for free and use the opportunity to promote and sell tickets for the bigger events.

An example of this is Santa Pod drag strip. Even at the very smallest meetings they have a demo with their own jet car, showing fans what they can see all day long at the bigger meetings, so many buy tickets and come back. The bank is packed at the big meetings for all 3 days.

[driftwood]

Steve
i wa snot looking to split hairs yes i know people did night shifts during the war and after and its not a "modern" work practise to do nigh shift i was inferring of the different work patterns ie working weekends part time or full time as andrew also states shopping malls DIY stores
if 1 partner is working other has to look after the kids/take them to their recreational past times that maybe cost litttle or no ££

we have more self employed people these days working longer hours less free time people working from home.
Although the population has swelled the past 30 years i bet there are actually fewer free people at the weekend and with so many choices from going out to parks tracks football mountain biking hang glinding etc let alone sitting on yr chubby butt watching TV playing GP1 on the playstation u really need to do something special to get punters thru the door
FREE entry is a logical step

[bigears]

I have been doing some research into the Birmingham Superprix especially into the first event in 1986.

There are some newspaper articles reporting that John Webb have been involved with promoting the BSP events. Could anyone provide more light into his involvement?