NW FF1600 31st JULY - Island Circuit

[Ian Sowman]

Yes swift, but you could argue that is John's fault for not producing the goods in qualifying!

[halecmini]

also wanted to say well done to the 'chap'in the green car, 'excuse me ignorance here'... in the ff race might of been the post 87, who went from 2 to last with a 10sec penalty and back to second again, or something like that....was a very impressive drive!!!! well done mate!!

[Ian Sowman]

Based on fastest race laps, the grid for the final would have been:

Pike, Roberts, Austin, Marshall, Chadwick, Hodgen, Fricker, McArthur, Minshaw, Bailey, Chisnall, Hannam, Rodgers and then the qualifiers.

The qualification grid would have been:

Barnes, Mellish, Swift, Xavier, M White, Dix, Gavan, Wild, Scully, Wilkinson, Robinson, Baxter, Bibby, Patten, Mullins, Leatherbarrow, Jackson, Nelson, Studdart, H Arnold, Hurst, R Arnold, Franklin, Hall, Murphy, Jones, P White, Griffin, Gerrard, Czakow.

I'll take the anorak off now.

[Redracer77]

Not sure Dave Marshall would have been 4th as he only did 3 laps with a fastest of 1.34.2?

Oli Radford would have been an impressive 4th

[swift]

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
Based on fastest race laps, the grid for the final would have been:

Pike, Roberts, Austin, Marshall, Chadwick, Hodgen, Fricker, McArthur, Minshaw, Bailey, Chisnall, Hannam, Rodgers and then the qualifiers.

The qualification grid would have been:

Barnes, Mellish, Swift, Xavier, M White, Dix, Gavan, Wild, Scully, Wilkinson, Robinson, Baxter, Bibby, Patten, Mullins, Leatherbarrow, Jackson, Nelson, Studdart, H Arnold, Hurst, R Arnold, Franklin, Hall, Murphy, Jones, P White, Griffin, Gerrard, Czakow.

I'll take the anorak off now.

Definitely think you need to get out more, Ian!

[blue nose]

I think the way the Moose race was set out was sound we should have it more than once a year...I recon Colin would have loved it.

[Ian Sowman]

Chris is correct, I misread my own writing... Marshall would have been about ninth. Anyway, the point is only one Pre 1987 would have made it straight through to the final.

[diz]

Personally speaking, I think the grids were perfect

It was always going to be based on positions from the qualifying sessions [one point of reference had to be 100% definite] with my intervention to ensure that all those that wanted to do the Moose Trophy would do so from a full grid qualifier into a full grid final.
This meant having to wait until after the two championship races had been run to find out who had survived and from those who hadn't, which would have made repairs. This left me with 43 cars [from the original 49] to play with.
I started from the the front by taking the 1st 5 from Pre and Post qualifying to form the 1st 5 rows of the final grid. Then I went to the slowest qualifiers to start from row 15 of the qualifying race grid, Pre, Post alternately. With 30 Post and 19 Pre [before the removal of the 6 who wouldn't be playing], with the entry split, I was going to run out of Pre's, so there would be a bunch of Post's all together.
So we would end up with 30 cars in the qualifier and 13 straight into the final [positions 11, 12 + 13 being Q6, Q7 + Q8 from Post qualifying]
The first 17 finishers from the qualifying race would fill up the final grid to another 30 cars.

Absobloodylutely simple in my mind.

There were always going to be questions and 'what ifs', just one example being :- "If I qualify badly I suffer, it should be on race finishing positions." But then the quick qualifiers might not finish high enough - or at all - to get a good grid slot for the final. See, it ain't easy is it?

If you think the above is complicated, try this one from an American website explaining who would qualify at a race at Lime Rock Park in May. I posted this somewhere back in January. FF = Formula Ford, NCF = National Club FF and CF = Club FF

Greg, Hi, hope you are well. Regarding the number of starters, I am going to confuse you and everyone else, but here goes.
Just for this example, if there are 50 entries, and of those 50, 50% are FF or 25 cars, 35% NCF or 18 cars, and 15% CF cars or 8 cars, YES THOSE ARE ROUNDED NUMBERS, BEAR WITH ME PEOPLE,then the fastest 50% of the 30 car field, or 15 cars, BASED ON A GRID OF 30 QUALIFIED STARTERS, WAIT, DON'T FREAK YET, the fastest 35% of 30, or 11 NCF, and 15% of 30, or 5 CF cars, for a field of 15 + 11 + 5=31. Then there is a non-qualifiers race for the 19 cars not yet qualified made up of 10 FF, 7 NCF, and 3 CF. The top 2 in each class transfer to the Feature along, another 6 cars, so we're at 37, with one promoters option and one hard luck transfer for a total grid of 39 which is just one over the "legal" limit of 25 per mile X 1.53=38. Confused ?
At least all entrants get a race on the day, a lucky few have two races, and hopefully those who do not run the feature through natural selection [mechanicals, incidents, etc] still have a good event.
More as soon as it is known. Or understood.

Back to yesterday. Chris Chisnall suffered as he qualified out of session, but came through to 4th in the Pre87 race but was always going to have to start at the back of the Moose Qualifier. Conversely Mike Bibby and Dave Franklin didn't suffer in the Moose qualifying system, but would have done if it had been on race finishing, as one didn't and the other struggled round - with a misfire - to only finish 10th. So it is all swings and roundabouts.

As I said, my decision was final - there ain't nothing wrong with a dictatorship.

Did I get constant hassle with all the questioning I got yesterday? Too damned right I did.
Would I do it again? If you had asked me yesterday, the answer would have been no. Ask me today - maybe. Ask me tomorrow - definitely.

Thaks to Redracer77 for allowing me the peace and tranquility of his new motorhome to sit down and do the grids. I spent part of yesterday taking short cuts and doubling back on myself to avoid people and even more questions.

[D_Marshall]

With these sort of races there are always going to be winners and loses. I was lucky the Moose race was taken from qualifying times but on the other hand my team mate Chris Chisnall was not! He started from last twice and 22nd for the final but his times show he was much faster than this. However it was always known that qualifying times were to dictate the first part of the grid and so there was no complaining from him. He just knew he had had some bad luck in qualifying. Also positions from the two qualifying sessions had to be used (and not actual times) because one session was wet and the other one was dry(ish) which meant if qualifying times had been used then all the cars from the dry session would have had an unfair advantage.

It was a great idea to run the race like this and i would love to race in another meeting set up in the same way.

[blue nose]

What were the results from the Moose race?

[diz]

Just a thought here, not a decision.

Run all Championship rounds to a Qualifying Race and Final format. Two full Formula Ford grids at every round. Score points towards your Class Championship on the finishing results of whichever race you were in on that day.
e.g.
The Final is the top 20 in qualifying and the full grid for the final is made up by the first however many finishers from the qualifier. If six from one class make the final, they get points for 1st to 6th in their class points. All others from that class who don't get through from the qualifier get points for 7th to 10th [or however far down the points go]
If any of the six in the final [say two of them] fail to finish, points are only awarded for P1, P2, P3 + P4. The 1st class finisher in the qualifier still only gets points for 7th etc. In this example, points for P5 + P6 are not awarded at that round. An option would be for the first qualifying race class finisher to get points for P5 etc. Bleating from the Final race non finishers that this isn't fair that they get no points and drivers from the qualifying race do would not be tolerated. Finishing means points, non finishing doesn't. End of story.

As I say, it is just an idea. You wouldn't always get all the quick drivers in the Final and all the slower ones in the Qualifier. It wouldn't matter what age class of car they race. Some would be in one race one meeting and the other the next, or vice versa. Class points would still be available to finishers.
Using the current class age splits, there wouldn't be a Pre87 race - or Pre90 race, or whatever in future. There would be two Formula Ford races necessitated by entry levels. If driver support wanes - as it does in all Formulae on occasion, but then recovers - there would be occasions where the qualifier / final scenario isn't needed as all entries could be accomodated on one grid.

Discuss

[diz]

Originally posted by blue nose
What were the results from the Moose race?

Roberts, Hodgen, Marshall etc. It should all be on www.clubff1600.co.uk

[blue nose]

I like the idea as it was interesting yesterday it was good to be on the grid with Sir Frankie and Bibbs how about doing it at Anglesey.

[blue nose]

Dave how long do we have to wait for the proper race report from yesterday.

[diz]

He'll log on later to tell all, but advance warning :-
jminsh is home.

[Kicking-back]

Is clubff1600 a free site run by volunteers?

[diz]

It is a free site founded and funded by one of the drivers [Redracer77]. None of the contributors gets paid a bean. RR77 would like some small sponsors to come on board to help finance the completion of the site.

What do you think about the site?

[Kicking-back]

I think it's great.

Particularly informative - yet accessible to those of us not intimately involved in FF.

Pity people should snipe about the speed of updates though!

[jminsh]

Hi all iam back home now after little incedent of yesterday.

Only rememberish hitting the wall don't recall being run over by the recovery truck though !! well it feels like i did any way.

Off road driving for 6 weeks and off racing for 3 months bugger just as i was starting to enjoy it !!!!!!!!!

Jase.

[Ian Sowman]

That's hard luck Jase. At least you're in one piece!

[blue nose]

If you want Jase I can do the Gold cup in your Merlin...Its good to see your OK mate.

[Ian Lewis]

After giving us all heart failure (and that was just from running up the Pit Straight!!) glad that you are OK Jason. The racing was excellent with a full grid of 30 cars - fantastic - shame it had to be stopped. Would love to see it run again sometime later this year - or next? Or maybe every time? If you are unable to race how about some marshalling (no probs if you're not up to it - just a thought!) And in the meantime you can save up for a new car. Does Sarah know you borrowed it?!!
Ian

[diz]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
I think it's great.Pity people should snipe about the speed of updates though!

I'll fill you in KB.

There are two different information outlets for NW FF1600. One is www.clubff1600.co.uk for all regional FF1600. The other is the BRSCC NW FF1600 Championship newsletter, which I produce. Usually it is with the drivers and on www.brsccnw.com by midweek after each round [although this season I have been a bit tardy getting it out]. Part of this is an alternative view from David Bailey [swift] one of the drivers. It is this publication that Alan Pike [blue nose] is referring to in a 'taking the mickey type vein' with swift.
Nobody complains about clubff1600, which has qualifying reports on before the races have taken place and often the full meeting reports and photos online before the drivers get home from the meeting.

When I mentioned earlier that "Redracer77 would like some small sponsors to come on board to help finance the completion of the site." I meant to cover all of the regions.
We have four regions North West; Midlands, Castle Combe [all three covered at present] and Southern. Plus Classic FF, Northern Ireland FF and Historic FF. So of the seven areas, only three are fully on the site. The other four get covered in a general way. If more funding was available, the site would be complete.

[blue nose]

[i]

Pity people should snipe about the speed of updates though! [/B]

Well said Diz but in my view David puts up a more accurate description of what happens in the race and we look forward to reading them the same as club FF1600 Ians views are good but the wrong choice of words lets them down sometimes.

[kartingdad]

Off racing for 3 months!

Listen Jase, don't worry, we'll have a whip round and get the car fixed in time for Anglesey!