F Fords and Wings

[darcym]

not from what I've seen it was like go karts

[Pete Fenelon]

FFord is dead and buried as a "mainstream" formula now. The kids entering racing "seriously" out of karting with their eyes on F1 want grippy tyres, wings and lots of PR bulls**t including a car that "looks like a baby F1". And that means FBMW. I was shocked, stunned and actually slightly disgusted by the size of the hospitality unit BMW brought to Croft.

Part of the premise of FFord was that a racing car should be something that the moderately affluent man in the street could afford. Part of the premise of FBMW seems to be that it should look as much like a miniaturised F1 as possible, even down to the scowling faces of the drivers....

Pretty little cars, mind, but give me a grid of Kents any day.

[diz]

Originally posted by Pete Fenelon
Pretty little cars, mind, but give me a grid of Kents any day.

Hear Hear.
There'll be fifty of them out at Oulton this Saturday. Not too far from York Pete.

[JEB]

Formula Fords should never have wings !
Simple as that.

[Mackmot]

Something I am finding interesting is that any of the *serious* karters are not wanting to do BMW at all, they think it is uncompetative and made for your typical Rotax level karter.

Any of the top European karters are looking straight at going into FRenault. To be honest though I think they should really just go straight to F3

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally posted by Mackmot
Something I am finding interesting is that any of the *serious* karters are not wanting to do BMW at all, they think it is uncompetative and made for your typical Rotax level karter.

Any of the top European karters are looking straight at going into FRenault. To be honest though I think they should really just go straight to F3

FBMW is about three things:

Presentation

Presentation

Presentation


Look at the size of the hospitality unit that BMW bring to the races - it's gigantic. I'm sure the cars would be just as quick run off the back of a trailer behind a transit, but you've got to have somewhere for Pushy Dad to eat his four course meal

[medler]

Formula Ford doesn't need wings, it won't help the national series and I doubt the club racers want it.
Unless there is a miricle on biblical proportions, the National series if on the way out, due to lack of promotion, broken promises and a lack of williness to use new technologies. Mackmot is right you can tell young drivers about extra testing, learning about mechanical grip, but to them they see a car that seems from another generation. And it will be a great loss to the national series, because the alternative is one make series, where you have to buy thier chassis, thier parts at thier prices and sign up to the corperate machine that runs it, but then if you want to be an F1 driver I suppose you have to be part of the corperate machine.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Where are the parts for Kent engines coming from now?

Is it possible to buy a brand new engine still?

[blue nose]

Originally posted by ZetecNo9
Where are the parts for Kent engines coming from now?

Is it possible to buy a brand new engine still?

John have you seen the light and are thinking of converting to real racing?

[foreversideways]

Formula Ford 1600 at club level can only go from strength to strength. There have always been a great number of people with modist means who want to race. They are excluded from these new corporate formulas as they are to expensive. The formulas under pressure in the end will be the Renaults, BMW etc as there are only so many people who can afford them. These companies have no interest in the viability of UK motor sport, for them it is a marketing tool and when it no longer suits they will go. Anyway i am sure the idea was to have a formula which was accesible to as many people as possible to draw from a greater pool of talent and of course it worked. From an entertainment standpoint, no contest. Oulton Park saturday, 50+ Formula Fords, competitive racing and some very quick drivers. Formula Ford is dead LONG LIVE FORMULA FORD

[StephenRae]

Originally posted by foreversideways
....The formulas under pressure in the end will be the Renaults, BMW etc as there are only so many people who can afford them. These companies have no interest in the viability of UK motor sport, for them it is a marketing tool and when it no longer suits they will go.....

Got it in one! Over the years those who have run championships to further their own interests have diluted Formula Ford. Ford's input amounts to 'upgrading' to the Zetec engine...because it suited them...and precious little else.

[Triple J Motorsport]

I don't think I'd convert but buy a newish Ray or RF01 Van Diemen.

I was seriously interested in Alx Danielson's old Ray a while back but couldn't get a buyer for mine quick enough.

I want to see if Avon do anything with the FF1800 tyres as that's the main expense. They need to make the performance window last much longer. I have been told they are trying to do this.

Also want to see what happens with FF1600 weights and grid levels in the south. The down side to switching as I see it is the kent engine. The Zetec although tall and heavy is so much cheaper to run.

[howard]

Can someone explain why so many club races are converting 1800 cars to 1600 spec? Surely, in time a 1800 competitive club series will pull regular grids of a decent size. Both, engine and car combination have plus points, but soon there won’t be many Zetecs left.

[blue nose]

Its because 1600 are more fun to drive and also to watch or that there will only be Mono in which to run soon.

[JohnMiller]

1600s don't have that bloody great lump pendeluming them about either.

and there must be several hundred competing in the UK alone right now, compared to maximum 20 club level Zetecs...

[Barry Pomfret]

One of the easiest ways to make Zetecs more "raceable" would be to lighten the " bloody great lump", this could be easily done by doing away with the cast iron exhaust manifold and allowing light weight fabricated free flow manifolds. A simple and easy solution.

[foreversideways]

You have to face it. FF1600 has been right from the start, way back in the 60s and has been providing great entertainment for spectators and great driving for the competitors since then. Remember some of the great drivers who have cut there teeth in the formula since then.How many F1 world champions?.As i said it will only become more popular (at club level) as the other formulas become more expensive. Another interesting development could be that fast young drivers with limited cash will still be attracted (one or two around at the moment)and with full grids will still be able to showcase their talent.

[JohnMiller]

You're not wrong BP but I think you're fighting a losing battle with Zetecs as a club formula. People just think they're pricey to run (not true) and have few places to race, whereas you can wheel the 1600 out pretty much every weekend of the year if you want to.

[diz]

Also BP, I spotted you from afar at Oulton on Saturday. Did you get a chance to see any of the FF1600 races? I know you will have seen the cars in the Paddock, as with 50 of them you'd have kept tripping over them.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Barry, totally agree with you a better exhaust manifold would release a bit more power as well.

You could also replace the alloy inlet manifold with the lighter plastic one as fitted to the Focus.

Keep the weights the same too!

[JEB]

As I have said before - FF does not need wings.
Weights don't need to be messed with either.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Jeb

As I said let us run light manifolds and leave the weights alone.