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Old 2 Feb 2015, 09:45 (Ref:3500032)   #301
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fausto should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
new kid on the block ;)

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/0...september.html Ligier P3!
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Old 2 Feb 2015, 10:13 (Ref:3500037)   #302
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That's a really cute car, with the design features of the LMP2.
Almost like a little kid waiting to grow up to become a LMP2
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Old 2 Feb 2015, 11:29 (Ref:3500044)   #303
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Onroak say that they “want to take the time required to fine-tune this new LM P3 sports prototype before its homologation, which will then be frozen for three years.”
Uh-oh... Does P3 have any kind of BoP-device? Otherwise this could be very bad news for all the guys that just invested in the Juno/Ginetta. What happens if Ligier build a far superior car? Would that obliterate everybody's prior investments?
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Old 2 Feb 2015, 12:06 (Ref:3500057)   #304
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And again, from Racecar Engineering.

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...to-build-lmp3/
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Old 2 Feb 2015, 14:55 (Ref:3500114)   #305
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Uh-oh... Does P3 have any kind of BoP-device? Otherwise this could be very bad news for all the guys that just invested in the Juno/Ginetta. What happens if Ligier build a far superior car? Would that obliterate everybody's prior investments?
Don't know about bop, but hopefully the strengths/weaknesses of a chassis are tempered by the pro/am format and people maybe racing in the class to have fun.
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Old 2 Feb 2015, 16:13 (Ref:3500136)   #306
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Uh-oh... Does P3 have any kind of BoP-device? Otherwise this could be very bad news for all the guys that just invested in the Juno/Ginetta. What happens if Ligier build a far superior car? Would that obliterate everybody's prior investments?
OMG, could you imagine the horror of a better engineered car winning races and thus taking market share from their inferior competition?

I fully expect the cars to at least be somewhat equalized to ensure the $ guys don't take their balls and go home.
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Old 2 Feb 2015, 17:03 (Ref:3500153)   #307
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OMG, could you imagine the horror of a better engineered car winning races and thus taking market share from their inferior competition?
We live in an imperfect world, and with the homologation rules being what they are, the scenario I've described could easily kill the class before it ever really gets started. Would be a different story if there was a fixed homologation date for all constructors or the possibility to evolutionize, but with neither being the case this could seriously misfire. In effect Ginetta/Juno could be penalized for being the brave ones that first signed up for the new rules, but without them the whole class might have never gotten off the ground in the first place.
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Old 2 Feb 2015, 17:20 (Ref:3500162)   #308
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Most of the parts and components in P3 are spec so the likelihood of one package being miles away from the rest is not particularly high.

The option for BoP exists in LMP2 but they don't really utilize it at all these days, and that category (even in it's cost cap + lack of development format) has more freedom allowed from constructors.

If they start fiddling around with BoP in LMP3 it'll be just like Daytona Prototypes. Cheap, low tech, mostly spec cars thrown into wind tunnel for adjusting - well just without wind tunnel, Lord Beaumesnil's committee alone

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Old 3 Feb 2015, 13:27 (Ref:3500439)   #309
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Scuderia Villorba Corsa (Blancpain Pro-Am champions) joining LMP3 in the ELMS with a Ginetta Juno. Good news all around.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/elms/...-ginetta-juno/
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Old 3 Feb 2015, 16:45 (Ref:3500483)   #310
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Even if the Oak car, or another design for that matter would prove much quicker than the GJ and thus eventually ending to some chassis switcharounds (which I don't believe will happen), Ginetta is still making some great money with this. These numbers are soon starting to look like Oreca FLM09 figures in 09 when FLM was a full spec series
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Old 3 Feb 2015, 19:19 (Ref:3500538)   #311
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Okay this ain't LMP3 but still related - wouldn't it be funny if the dinosaur Oreca FLM09 was continued in the American series after 2016? Lol "upgraded" 2009 chassis transformed from even older Courage still competing circa 2020 wouldn't even be that hard to imagine with the stock car overlords. Meanwhile rest of the world would enjoy, if not the most technologically advanced or interesting, still lightyears ahead P3 coupe.

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ORECA Group President Hugues de Chaunac has revealed a proposal for an upgrade kit to the Oreca FLM09 Prototype Challenge car. IMSA has yet to determine the future of the class past 2016, with the adoption of LMP3 or utilizing the same prototype-spec of cars in P and PC reportedly also options being evaluated.
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Old 3 Feb 2015, 20:22 (Ref:3500558)   #312
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Okay this ain't LMP3 but still related - wouldn't it be funny if the dinosaur Oreca FLM09 was continued in the American series after 2016? Lol "upgraded" 2009 chassis transformed from even older Courage still competing circa 2020 wouldn't even be that hard to imagine with the stock car overlords. Meanwhile rest of the world would enjoy, if not the most technologically advanced or interesting, still lightyears ahead P3 coupe.
The thing is that PC has a marketability in the US that it doesn't have in Europe. It appeals to the American love of the big, loud American V8 engine.
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Old 3 Feb 2015, 20:29 (Ref:3500562)   #313
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The thing is that PC has a marketability in the US that it doesn't have in Europe. It appeals to the American love of the big, loud American V8 engine.
What marketability? Show me a person (apart from those competing) that care about LMPC? Yeah I thought so.

The only reason they want to keep it going is because it's easy and cheap in contrast to something proper.

Also for LMPC being more popular in US than Europe, Chevrolet engine has nothing to do with it.
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Old 3 Feb 2015, 20:57 (Ref:3500575)   #314
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What marketability? Show me a person (apart from those competing) that care about LMPC? Yeah I thought so.

The only reason they want to keep it going is because it's easy and cheap in contrast to something proper.

Also for LMPC being more popular in US than Europe, Chevrolet engine has nothing to do with it.
Wait.. Since when is it wrong to keep a series alive because it is easy and cheap!?

We must remember a basic assumption towards all motorsport fans:
- It is always better to have racing, than no racing.
If the LMPC formula can keep teams and drivers racing in Sportscars in USA, then I'm perfectly happy with that.
I'll take large field of "old" racing cars with close racing over a small modern racing series with few strong competitors.
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Old 3 Feb 2015, 21:50 (Ref:3500598)   #315
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I don't think whether LMPC is there or not is gonna particularly influence the health of the series itself it was disliked most of the time it was in ALMS, it's got even more slack with USCC.

LMP3, while probably a little more expensive to run, would at least look modern and be a non spec format. I mean, Riley is designing a chassis of all things.
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Old 4 Feb 2015, 00:13 (Ref:3500643)   #316
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What marketability? Show me a person (apart from those competing) that care about LMPC? Yeah I thought so.
There are a LOT of people who love LMPC amongst the fans. Don't assume that you because you don't like something that nobody else does.

For every hardcore fan that's bashed the class there are at least as many fans -casual and hardcore- who love it. You need only talk to fans at a race to see this.
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Old 4 Feb 2015, 00:40 (Ref:3500650)   #317
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I can't attend the races (for obvious reasons) but on web I've never seen anyone care of the class. Not positively. Except maybe couple of years ago in ALMS qualifying when they had pretty damn close sessions and couple of people were rather intrigued by the gaps there, but what would you expect from spec class? How can one 'love' it?

That category is like Indy Lights with the ages old Dallara chassis.

LMPC have always been seen as grid fillers by majority - and that was their original intention too of course in the US, let's not kid ourselves. LMP3 could be something more
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Old 4 Feb 2015, 00:53 (Ref:3500652)   #318
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I can't attend the races (for obvious reasons) but on web I've never seen anyone care of the class. Not positively. Except maybe couple of years ago in ALMS qualifying when they had pretty damn close sessions and couple of people were rather intrigued by the gaps there, but what would you expect from spec class? How can one 'love' it?
A consistent attitude regarding the spec nature of the class is that "It's not the top class, why complain about it?" An attitude I quite agree with; Spec racing has it's place, and unless it's a ladder championship or club series that place is NOT at the head of the field(though I liked having the PC class headline a race with Prototype Lites, I'd count that under the "ladder series" heading).

People on the Internet, I've learned, tend to be a lot more hard-headed in their viewpoints and less tolerant of things that don't fit their ideal view. You get a more accurate view the fan attitude at the track.

Now, I've sadly yet to be able to attend a TUSCC race(waiting for them to come back to Mid-Ohio), but I remember attending ALMS when the PC class came around, and a lot of fans wondered why they weren't trying to market the PC class to the "MURRIKIN V8S RULE!!!!" crowd. I've yet to meet someone of such a mindset who didn't like PC upon hearing them(though whether or not said person liked them enough to care about TUSCC/ALMS varied widely).

At the end of the day, though, it may not be enough to justify the continued presence of the class, but it's something the series is certain to consider going forward.
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Old 4 Feb 2015, 01:10 (Ref:3500659)   #319
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Don't they have way enough Chevrolet engines in the series already with the Coyote/Dallara-"Corvette" DPs and Corvette GTEs?

You're right in that spec series have their place. But it shouldn't be in a series that calls itself the premier sportscar series in America (not that there aren't other issues). LMPC run well enough with Lites, throw them there. They'd look more in home there with the other open tops and dated designs.
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Old 4 Feb 2015, 01:19 (Ref:3500663)   #320
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Don't they have way enough Chevrolet engines in the series already with the Coyote/Dallara-"Corvette" DPs and Corvette GTEs?
Don't forget those may be gone in the future - DPs are on the way out, after all, and there's no guarantee that Chevy's gonna get the body reskins they want.

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You're right in that spec series have their place. But it shouldn't be in a series that calls itself the premier sportscar series in America.
There's nothing wrong with the premiere league having a single spec class. Though it would've been better had the planned upgrade kit to convert PCs into LMP2 cars been done.

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They'd look more in home there with the other open tops and dated designs.
That's the other thing - I really don't think they look so dated. Particularly not with the DPs on the track.
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Old 4 Feb 2015, 02:46 (Ref:3500682)   #321
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I can't attend the races (for obvious reasons) but on web I've never seen anyone care of the class. Not positively. Except maybe couple of years ago in ALMS qualifying when they had pretty damn close sessions and couple of people were rather intrigued by the gaps there, but what would you expect from spec class? How can one 'love' it?

That category is like Indy Lights with the ages old Dallara chassis.

LMPC have always been seen as grid fillers by majority - and that was their original intention too of course in the US, let's not kid ourselves. LMP3 could be something more
I'll go out on a limb here and say I actually find the class to be entertaining. The last two years at Daytona and Sebring shouldn't cast the class in a negative light. The "regular" races have been pretty good, you get to see some top talent - established pros and up and coming youngsters teamed with guys nice enough to fund the operation. Qualy is especially nice.
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Old 4 Feb 2015, 09:12 (Ref:3500753)   #322
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I don't think whether LMPC is there or not is gonna particularly influence the health of the series itself it was disliked most of the time it was in ALMS, it's got even more slack with USCC.

LMP3, while probably a little more expensive to run, would at least look modern and be a non spec format. I mean, Riley is designing a chassis of all things.
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Don't they have way enough Chevrolet engines in the series already with the Coyote/Dallara-"Corvette" DPs and Corvette GTEs?

You're right in that spec series have their place. But it shouldn't be in a series that calls itself the premier sportscar series in America (not that there aren't other issues). LMPC run well enough with Lites, throw them there. They'd look more in home there with the other open tops and dated designs.
Remember that racing is still a sport primarily for the competitors not the fans.
The rules and the series are first off made so people want to compete in the class and have a good time.

I can see what you mean with have a "amateur" league running in the top series is downgrading the whole series. But if it is impossible to fill the grid with highly tuned professional teams and drivers, you take the next best thing, which is semi-professional teams with a high amount of amateur drivers.
Again, I'll take a spec racing car with an amateur driver over an empty slot on the grid any day.
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Old 4 Feb 2015, 09:52 (Ref:3500762)   #323
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People on the Internet, I've learned, tend to be a lot more hard-headed in their viewpoints and less tolerant of things that don't fit their ideal view. You get a more accurate view the fan attitude at the track.
I totally agree. I find most of the internet-wiseguys who don't personally attend at race venues (but have really hard-headed opinions) similar to those gym-goers who don't actually work out but judge others and share 'good tips for bench presing'.
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Old 4 Feb 2015, 09:59 (Ref:3500766)   #324
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or the ones that do go and spend 5 minutes taking a selfie, 2 minutes running on the treadmill, and lift 2 sets of weights really poorly.

of course, that the opinions of people who aren't able to get trackside and roll up their sleeves are valid, but the opinion giver and the listener should bear in mind that they're one dimensional. if you get to go to races, and know people involved then you've got a bit more of the picture. but only as much as you can gather or that people are willing to share.

but NOBODY has the full picture. it's simply not possible.
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Old 4 Feb 2015, 11:52 (Ref:3500804)   #325
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Remember that racing is still a sport primarily for the competitors not the fans.
Basically it's the competitor who pays the bills. In motorsports, teams and drivers finance their sport 100% (wether the money comes from sponsors, own private business etc.). Here in Scandinavia even golfers receive public assistance from taxpayers.

So, why then listen wise-guys who just despise their cars, sporting regulations and such no matter how you try?

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or the ones that do go and spend 5 minutes taking a selfie, 2 minutes running on the treadmill, and lift 2 sets of weights really poorly.

of course, that the opinions of people who aren't able to get trackside and roll up their sleeves are valid, but the opinion giver and the listener should bear in mind that they're one dimensional. if you get to go to races, and know people involved then you've got a bit more of the picture. but only as much as you can gather or that people are willing to share.

but NOBODY has the full picture. it's simply not possible.
For me, doing some marshaling has given me a tiny bit wider view of the sport. Though I've been only as a part of timing and scoring personnel at dirt bike races, but still as a marshal you see lots of things you wouldn't see as a spectator or through the telly. Of course, if one is too proud to participate as a marshal in other vacancy than waving the chequered flag in Monte Carlo, then I feel sorry for them.

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