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Old 5 Jul 2011, 06:01 (Ref:2918313)   #251
V8madness
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First of all how could a car that weighs more and less HP than a V8supercar be faster??As they can do a 56 Flat.
Secondily was the timing done by (MyLaps) or somebody standing on the hill with his eye crommator?
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Old 5 Jul 2011, 06:18 (Ref:2918319)   #252
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Not hard to see how a V8ST would be quicker than a V8 Supercar. Racing weight with driver 1300kG, 550HP and 500ft/lbs at rear wheels (Not at flywheel), better front and rear end geometry, due to a clean sheet design and 50/50 weight distribution due to all alloy engine, etc etc.
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Old 5 Jul 2011, 06:31 (Ref:2918321)   #253
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I just cant see How this ST could be quicker than any transam or GT car in the country, Please post offical lap times.
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Old 5 Jul 2011, 07:02 (Ref:2918326)   #254
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Originally Posted by V8madness View Post
I just cant see How this ST could be quicker than any transam or GT car in the country, Please post offical lap times.
Thought we were talking V8 Supercar....I don't believe the V8ST team even thinks this car will come close to the record Kayne set in the Dodge Viper earlier this year 54.5, especially according to Mark, the Viper will go faster. We can feel safe that our belovered Trans-Am's, well driven...will rule, when it comes to lap time. Official laps, why would the V8ST team even bother. They are testing a prototype, which includes of host of changes every time they go out. FYI 57.9 at Puke, and 67.2 on a damp track at Hampton Down's, these times are no secret and listed on every chat site out there. I would presume times were recorded on the dash, like 99.9% of the cars, karts and motorbikes do now days
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Old 5 Jul 2011, 07:38 (Ref:2918347)   #255
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Originally Posted by V8madness View Post
First of all how could a car that weighs more and less HP than a V8supercar be faster?? As they can do a 56 Flat.
Secondily was the timing done by (MyLaps) or somebody standing on the hill with his eye crommator?
Gee, I'm detecting a hint of negativity there Mr Madness (or maybe you're just generally angry?)

Just cos I like getting my calculator out:
V8 Supertourer site quotes HP @ 'around' 575 and weight as 'less than' 1300kg incl driver = 442 hp/ton

V8 Supercar, lets say a generally accepted 640hp and class weight limit of 1445kg incl driver = ...........wait for it........ 442hp/ton!!....well, actually to be honest I wasn't expecting that result

I doubt outright lap records were the motivating factor in the design of this car (Who really cares anyway from an entertainment point of view?) but the more you look at the numbers it does suggest that they're potentially very fast?
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Old 5 Jul 2011, 08:08 (Ref:2918358)   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8madness View Post
I just cant see How this ST could be quicker than any transam or GT car in the country, Please post offical lap times.
@ Thunder in the Park Greenslade was in the 57's, Cameron Jones in 59's, Corliss 59's not all the GT1 boys run sub 56
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Old 14 Jul 2011, 08:31 (Ref:2926393)   #257
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Holden Motorsport has confirmed its support of New Zealand’s new V8SuperTourers class.

The category is set to kick off at Hampton Downs in February next year, featuring multiple body shapes fitted to a common chassis with a control 7.0-litre Chevrolet engine.

While the class will include bodyshapes from Holden (Commodore VE), Ford (Falcon FG) and at least one other marque next year, the Paul Ceprnich/Pace Innovations-built category prototype has run in Holden guise.

Holden Motorsport manager Simon McNamara says supporting the class was a natural decision for Holden.

“For over 40 years Holden has supported motorsport and racing is very much in our DNA, so it was only natural for us to become involved in the evolution of New Zealand’s exciting new V8SuperTourer category through the development of the prototype,” said McNamara.

“The V8SuperTourer category has been designed to be cost effective and create closer racing, all of which we fully support.”

The V8SuperTourers has support from Holden on both sides of the Tasman, with Holden New Zealand managing director Jeff Murray excited by the class.

“This is a great opportunity for Holden to be part of an exciting new race series that we believe will be followed by not only just those proud Holden fans but also motor racing fans in general,” said Murray.

“Some of the best racing car drivers this country has produced will be driving in this new series providing some very tantalising motor racing.

“Holden is proud to be supporting this exciting new V8SuperTourer series for New Zealanders.”
I'm sure announcements like that can only be good for the V8ST series, I wonder what 'Holden Support' consists of though? Maybe a 'factory' car in the series?

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Old 14 Jul 2011, 09:45 (Ref:2926425)   #258
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Mark Cromie runs a Holden Dealership, his car for Murph might be the closest we get to a HNZRT.
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Old 14 Jul 2011, 20:41 (Ref:2926785)   #259
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I'm sure announcements like that can only be good for the V8ST series, I wonder what 'Holden Support' consists of though? Maybe a 'factory' car in the series?

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hmm maybe free plastic Holden badges for those running Commodores

since Murph is the face of Holden over here.. their involvement isn't really a surprise.
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 00:23 (Ref:2927891)   #260
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Hello everyone, it's been a while, but then it's been a while since there's been something controversial to comment about

I personally really like the potential shown by the new V8 Supertourers, particularly the fact that they look to be kick-a** fast, especially compared to the current ancient NZV8's that should have been put out to pasture 5 years ago. There had been lots of talk of a new shape and new tech replacement for the current cars, but I guess it takes a very long time to settle on a format that will keep costs down.

However, it now appears that we may have something of a split in the V8 community now, with the Supertourers getting announced and then Lo! A few days later a hurried response by VEEGA for their car of the future, coupled with a sly dig at the idea of a "one make" style of car.

Well I can say this, in the V8 Supercars (Oz) apart from the actual engines which get supplied by Ford or Chev, there is almost nothing about a V8 Supercar that resembles anything that you could buy from your local Ford or Holden dealer - and yet there is still rabid support for those marques over in Australia for this series. It's all about perception, you see, and because the cars look a bit like your regular taxis then the average Aussie Joe isn't too bothered about the technicalities of it. The cars are so close in performance and have so many shared parts that it comes down to how well the team prepares the car and how good the driver is (a lot like A1GP was too).

It's never going to be a completely level playing field for that reason, but I'm not sure it should be either. The way I see it, if the Supertourer guys can get their new cars out and racing first, and particularly once we start to see some different body shells, then they will have the jump on the NZV8's because we aren't going to see their new cars until next season (assuming that they run to plan).

The Supertourer guys have been very careful not to pitch their series as a direct challenge to the Tier 1 NZV8's, but you'd have to wonder why else they'd do it? Reading Mark Petch's earlier posts when he was on TEEGA, he was saying the same thing about the new NZV8's as he is about the Supertourers, but then suddenly he's off doing the Supertourer thing - makes you wonder if there was an element of furstration at the length of time it was taking to get something going in TEEGA.

I for one am looking forward to seeing the Supertourers in action, I hope they are fast and loud like a good race car should be!

And by the way, it's good to see they will be using Hampton Downs, which is without doubt the best motorsport facility in New Zealand if not Australasia as far aas quality of track goes, and which is consistently snubbed by MSNZ for its Tier 1 series - I wonder if someone at MSNZ got upset at something that someone at HD said....??
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 03:45 (Ref:2927919)   #261
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Totally agree with your comments there Goat Boy (and i will look out for goats when i next go 'racing'!)

Having the privaledge of seeing the car in the flesh and experiencing the test day at Hammies with Murph was just great. Especially when i was still 'high' from Shanes win in the Supercar class at the ITM400 days beforehand.

These cars represent forward thinking and IMO, will eventually push the BNT's out of contention for tier 1 - even with their new gimmicky car of the future, which will be nothing special.

The support from across the Tassie is also becoming evident and hats off to Johnny Mac in his interview alongside Giz at the recent Townsville 400, basically making out that there will be bugger all difference between a supercar and a supertourer......in fact hinting that in NZ we are actually kind of one step ahead of the aussies who still have to firm up CoTF.

As part of my job i get to travel the country and promote the series when i can - the support (esp in the South Island) is phenomenal and the guys in Invercargill are gutted that they wont make it to Teretonga, which is a shame but i believe there are some politics there.

Once the series goes 'live' and its plastered all over TV screens i think we will see an evolution in NZ touring car motorsport, and the fans should flock to these events.

And when you combine this innovation with what Hayden Paddon and Mitch Evans are doing overseas it starts to make NZ look very good for such a small population base.
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 04:02 (Ref:2927921)   #262
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I see alot of good things with the Supertourers but I am still concerned over what damage the split will do.

With the Supertourers only going to HD and Ruapuna that may count against them, obviously politics around the split stops them using other venues.

I think the ownership model at HD causes some issues regarding gate revenue and hence why Summer Series not using it.

At the moment I think the biggest issue for the Supertourers is no confirmed TV coverage, while I am sure they are working on that, until they have this I think its a problem for sponsorship.

Lets hope all parties work together for the best outcome for the sport, not for individuals or specific groups.
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 04:20 (Ref:2927922)   #263
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I see alot of good things with the Supertourers but I am still concerned over what damage the split will do.

With the Supertourers only going to HD and Ruapuna that may count against them, obviously politics around the split stops them using other venues.

I think the ownership model at HD causes some issues regarding gate revenue and hence why Summer Series not using it.

At the moment I think the biggest issue for the Supertourers is no confirmed TV coverage, while I am sure they are working on that, until they have this I think its a problem for sponsorship.

Lets hope all parties work together for the best outcome for the sport, not for individuals or specific groups.
I agree a split is not a great thing, it certainly damaged the Indy/Champ Cars [as well as the rugby league (Winfield Cup)] for years when it occured a few years back. But I guess splits happen for a reason, and it's usually due to frustration with lack of change at the top. Ideally there would be talks between NZST and VEEGA and they'd come to an agreement after the upcoming season. But that might be a bit much to hope for...

I would think that TVNZ might want to pick up coverage for the series, they have precious little other motorsport now that hasn't gone to TV3, yet for all that they did do a good job when Dave Turner was in charge of the motorsport. I have to say I'd take Geoff Bryan over Clint Brown any day as a front man!

Live coverage is too expensive for what it brings, but if you can get someone like Sports Media to put six cameras around the circuit and sell that package they could run it the week after, which would enable you to see the race live and then on TV, which I quite like the idea of.

I hope it works out well anyway, these things have the potential to be quicker than a V8 Supercar around a circuit like Hampton Downs in particular due to the lower kerb weight.

Anyone know a torque/weight ratio for comparison?
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 04:39 (Ref:2927924)   #264
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Goat Boy, I did this calculation on here a page or so back whilst trying to be a smarty pants,

[QUOTE=MarioNZ]
Just cos I like getting my calculator out:
V8 Supertourer site quotes HP @ 'around' 575 and weight as 'less than' 1300kg incl driver = 442 hp/ton

V8 Supercar, lets say a generally accepted 640hp and class weight limit of 1445kg incl driver = ...........wait for it........ 442hp/ton!!....well, actually to be honest I wasn't expecting that result QUOTE]


Supertourers quote 507lb-ft for torque but I have no idea what a V8 Supercar produces so maybe someone who does know can do that maths

Last edited by MarioNZ; 18 Jul 2011 at 04:47. Reason: Correcting primary school level grammatical blunders
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 05:25 (Ref:2927932)   #265
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Yeah I did see that post earlier, thanks, but the reason I am interested specifically in the torque is that it relates much more to the weight and the acceleration out of a corner than horsepower does. If the torque to weight ratio is higher for the Supertourers than for the V8 Supercars, it would make them quicker around a twisty circuit (as opposed to somewhere like Pukekohe which is all about power) as they would be able to accelerate out of corners more quickly.

Power, on the other hand, relates more to top speed (from my understanding of it) and speed relates much less to weight than acceleration does. This is because the calculation for the force required to propel anything through the air is rho (density of air) x v (velocity) squared x frontal area x cd (coefficient of drag). Which means that force required to push a car forward increases proportionally to the square of the increase in velocity (which is why they needed an extra 200 bhp to get a few extra km/h out of the Bugatti Veyron).

So the V8 Supercars should, with the same frontal area and similar aerodynamics, be a bit quicker around Pukekohe but not necessarily at Hampton, where speed doesn't come into it as much.
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 06:58 (Ref:2927950)   #266
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Originally Posted by NZSTfan View Post
These cars represent forward thinking and IMO, will eventually push the BNT's out of contention for tier 1 - even with their new gimmicky car of the future, which will be nothing special.
I'm not sure about that.. As far as I'm aware V8ST are operating outside MSNZ.

Quote:
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...in fact hinting that in NZ we are actually kind of one step ahead of the aussies who still have to firm up CoTF.
Kind of.. Their COTF has quite a few differences to the V8STs.
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 07:39 (Ref:2927962)   #267
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Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
Power, on the other hand, relates more to top speed (from my understanding of it) and speed relates much less to weight than acceleration does. This is because the calculation for the force required to propel anything through the air is rho (density of air) x v (velocity) squared x frontal area x cd (coefficient of drag). Which means that force required to push a car forward increases proportionally to the square of the increase in velocity (which is why they needed an extra 200 bhp to get a few extra km/h out of the Bugatti Veyron).
Ummm...I was with you all the way up to the sciency bit
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 08:03 (Ref:2927972)   #268
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Hard to find published (or admitted) torque figures for V8 Supercars but found a figure of 616nm for Jason Bright's car from last year in a newspaper article. This apparently equates to 454 ft-lbs so let's redo our numbers.....

505ft-lbs/1300kg = 388 ft-lbs per ton

454ft-lbs/1445kg = 314 ft-lbs per ton

Interesting......this is fun !!
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 09:35 (Ref:2928000)   #269
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Hard to find published (or admitted) torque figures for V8 Supercars but found a figure of 616nm for Jason Bright's car from last year in a newspaper article. This apparently equates to 454 ft-lbs so let's redo our numbers.....

505ft-lbs/1300kg = 388 ft-lbs per ton

454ft-lbs/1445kg = 314 ft-lbs per ton

Interesting......this is fun !!
If that's the case they should be a fair bit quicker!
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 10:23 (Ref:2928019)   #270
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[QUOTE=NZSTfan;2927919]

"Once the series goes 'live' and its plastered all over TV screens i think we will see an evolution in NZ touring car motorsport, and the fans should flock to these events."

"Live" (assuming you mean live TV coverage) and "plastered" is hugely expensive, and that raises a question that's been on my mind for months. Who's paying for that? (We don't have "live" coverage in NZ anyway, we have "same weekend"). V8Ute competitors in Tier 1 all contribute a big chunk of money in their entry fees to pay for TV, so NZST will either have to attract a sponsor with deep pockets (Holden or Ford or both?), attract support classes (with money) to run with them, or cover the cost of TV coverage themselves. Wouldn't that ultimately mean the teams will have to put their hands in their pockets? I wonder what NZST entry fees will be!
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 12:02 (Ref:2928070)   #271
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As part of my job i get to travel the country and promote the series when i can
*shocked*

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Old 18 Jul 2011, 16:07 (Ref:2928153)   #272
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As part of my job i get to travel the country and promote the series when i can - the support (esp in the South Island) is phenomenal and the guys in Invercargill are gutted that they wont make it to Teretonga, which is a shame but i believe there are some politics there.

Once the series goes 'live' and its plastered all over TV screens i think we will see an evolution in NZ touring car motorsport, and the fans should flock to these events.
Glad you finally came clean, as I believe you previously denied any link.

TV deals cost money and as well as buying a $200k car, someone is going to have to find dollars to fund it or sponsors to pay for it. Especially live TV.

Same with pulling crowds in.
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 21:53 (Ref:2928294)   #273
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Like I said earlier, I just hope that the split doesn't damage the sport like it did with the IRL and Champcars, and the League.




I will head to the Speedshow and have a look at both...

If the ST's can race at the same meets as the F5000's etc. wouldn't that be great?!! My perfect day out!!
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 22:01 (Ref:2928301)   #274
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I'm probably a bit off topic here, but if MSNZ want to ever get me to a Tier 1 event, they need to upgrade what is on offer - currently I prefer to see the unofficial events any day, lest I have to sit through Suzuki Swifts, Production Cars and V8 Utes all day. Yawn!! I don't come to the track to watch my grandmother's cars race, I want loud and FAST!!

Which is why I love the V8 Muscle Cars, F5000's and other such noise making monster machines. I also used to LOVE the Super GT's (whatever happened to them?) - watching the legendary Owen Evans turn the boost up on his Porsche Le Mans and scream down the back straight of Pukekohe at 300 km/h was something else!
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 22:12 (Ref:2928305)   #275
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[QUOTE=Goat Boy;2928301] I also used to LOVE the Super GT's (whatever happened to them?) QUOTE]

didn't most move to GTRNZ
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