The future of Corvette

[TF110]

Originally Posted by TF110

Has this interview with Autoweek been posted? Pretty detailed from PWC to TUSC and how Vette is positioned.

No one has said much about the interview, but what confused me was his take on the cost of GT3's vs GTE. Im not sure the exact figures, but arent GT3's a lot less expensive?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TF110

No one has said much about the interview, but what confused me was his take on the cost of GT3's vs GTE. Im not sure the exact figures, but arent GT3's a lot less expensive?

Apples and oranges. GTLM/E is a werks program with the emphasis on brand activation. GT3 is a full customer program which requires to build and develop a competitive piece of kit under a certain price point which is hard to do and make money.





L.P.

[Simmi]

Very interesting on the driver front. Briscoe seemingly confirmed for Le Mans in place of Westbrook.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117489

Looks like Westy is being flicked to me. Not buying that line from Vette.

[carbsmith]

GT3s are cheaper to buy. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're cheaper to build.

I think the implication is that the constant dick swinging contest of new GT3 cars and evolution kits will eventually push the cars to where either the customers can't afford to buy them or the manufacturers can't afford to sell them resulting in a rather catastrophic implosion of the current customer GT racing car market. Some manufacturers are using GT3 as a promotional tool so they can take a loss on those cars which puts a lot of pressure on a Porsche or Ferrari that is looking it as an actual for profit business selling race cars.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

GT3s are cheaper to buy. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're cheaper to build.

I think the implication is that the constant dick swinging contest of new GT3 cars and evolution kits will eventually push the cars to where either the customers can't afford to buy them or the manufacturers can't afford to sell them resulting in a rather catastrophic implosion of the current customer GT racing car market. Some manufacturers are using GT3 as a promotional tool so they can take a loss on those cars which puts a lot of pressure on a Porsche or Ferrari that is looking it as an actual for profit business selling race cars.

My take on it also.







L.P.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Apples and oranges. GTLM/E is a werks program with the emphasis on brand activation. GT3 is a full customer program which requires to build and develop a competitive piece of kit under a certain price point which is hard to do and make money.

It's not as black and white as that, GTE doesn't have to be run under works team and GT3 manufacturer (/tuner) isn't required by law to have customer program up and running. It's just the way it has evolved, but it's not written to stone.

Doug's speaking as if GT3 formula is entirely different from today's GT2 model. Even though the only real difference left is that their car is accepted at Le Mans and about five series, GT3 can race everywhere in the world except Le Mans. Whether car are built to some hollow specs is meaningless because of extensive bop and waivers

[Mike Hedlund]

GT3's are much cheaper to operate as they, in general, have much more street car parts than GTE cars. They're also mostly lower in up front costs (most are in the $500k range, a few are in the $650-750k range). GTE cars are in the $750k-$1M range.

Operating a GTE car on a race weekend is about 2-3x the cost of a GT3 car for the same amount of run-time.

However, the point Doug is making is that while GT3 might be considerably cheaper now, it's costs are escalating at a high rate. In a few years it might be just as expensive as running a GTE car. This is being driven by the factory competition in the class and will continue as long as the market will accept.. and once it doesn't, it'll end in a blaze of glory.

-mike

[Deleted]

And who's to say the same won't happen to GTE, there have already been GT1-esque signs in the air (albeit for different reasons). Especially if they start giving waivers to hybrids etc

Also the only cheap(er) place to run those cars is ELMS, WEC and USCC cost a ton. But if you want Le Mans entry you don't really want to be there so much as getting that is increasingly more difficult due to limited size and auto entries coming from elsewhere. IGTO and AsLMS allow them as well but GT3s have already pretty much killed them there (and the series are in death beds anyway)

[TF110]

In all he was justifying Vette being in gte- the LM connection. His thoughts on the price was wrong. At least in short term. But then, gte is short term if theyre combining the ruleset. So the issue is not apples/oranges. Its GT/GT, just not quite yet. Thing is, what will his words be when they both could change in the next couple years?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TF110

In all he was justifying Vette being in gte- the LM connection. His thoughts on the price was wrong. At least in short term. But then, gte is short term if theyre combining the ruleset. So the issue is not apples/oranges. Its GT/GT, just not quite yet. Thing is, what will his words be when they both could change in the next couple years?

Really, and what does it cost to develop and build a race car, do you have any REAL idea? I imagine not, so how on gods green earth can you say he is wrong? He is after all someone who knows EXACTLY what those figures are!

Also they are not combining GTE and GT3!





L.P.










L.P.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Really, and what does it cost to develop and build a race car, do you have any REAL idea? I imagine not, so how on gods green earth can you say he is wrong? He is after all someone who knows EXACTLY what those figures are!

Also they are not combining GTE and GT3!





L.P.










L.P.

Please, read again.

His thoughts on the price was wrong. At least in short term.

A gte car costs more than a gt3, that much is fact.

Anyway, youre taking the word "combining" too literally. The goal is to share things between the two classes. Sorry I didn't articulate that enough I must improve!!

[Accident]

Originally Posted by TF110

A gte car costs more than a gt3, that much is fact.

...Except he wasn't talking about the purchasing prices for the cars, he was talking about building and developing the car, setting up spare parts suppliers, engineering support to lend to customers, drivers to lend to customers, etc.

I imagine those reasons are probably why it seems GM hasn't decided if they want to make the Cadillac ATS-V a customer car yet, they would need to be able to offer support that could rival Audi and Mercedes and such if they wanted to actually sell the cars.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Accident

...Except he wasn't talking about the purchasing prices for the cars, he was talking about building and developing the car, setting up spare parts suppliers, engineering support to lend to customers, drivers to lend to customers, etc.

I imagine those reasons are probably why it seems GM hasn't decided if they want to make the Cadillac ATS-V a customer car yet, they would need to be able to offer support that could rival Audi and Mercedes and such if they wanted to actually sell the cars.

Yes, that would be the subject matter being considered.











L.P.

[Mt. Lynx]

Originally Posted by Accident

...Except he wasn't talking about the purchasing prices for the cars, he was talking about building and developing the car, setting up spare parts suppliers, engineering support to lend to customers, drivers to lend to customers, etc.

I imagine those reasons are probably why it seems GM hasn't decided if they want to make the Cadillac ATS-V a customer car yet, they would need to be able to offer support that could rival Audi and Mercedes and such if they wanted to actually sell the cars.

Bentley decided to go to GT3 for those exact opposite reasons. GTE was too costly in their opinion. I guess some of it is down to what you have to work with. I imagine that it takes less work to get a 'Vette to GTE specs than a Bentley Conti.

[GT6]

It will also be decided by where you want to race and the best place to advertise the brand/model after all selling cars is the main object and those choices are made by non racing people in the organisations

[Maelochs]

It crossed my mind when they said they wouldn't be considering customer cars until 2016 that they wanted to put 100 percent of the development effort into their own cars, and not have to be running around to various teams with the latest fixes ... and also they could be sure to reap the benefits, and further, didn't want the car's reputation damaged by a couple customer teams which couldn't quite make it work, which might impede sales down the line.

It occurs to me Corvette Racing might be sticking with GTE for similar reasons (except future sales considerations.)

Right now when Corvette wins, everyone knows it is the factory car—it is Corvette, not some racing team which just happens to run that car this season.

Main reason to stick with GTE? it is a higher class than GT3 in most popular domestic series and at Le Mans (and will likely stay that way if GM lobbyists have anything to say about it.)

So GM builds a Caddy to keep winning PWC, and maybe sell some cars overseas in the future if it works out, and keeps Corvette in GTE where it can only be beat by what are basically factory rides. Makes sense.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Accident

...Except he wasn't talking about the purchasing prices for the cars, he was talking about building and developing the car, setting up spare parts suppliers, engineering support to lend to customers, drivers to lend to customers, etc.

I imagine those reasons are probably why it seems GM hasn't decided if they want to make the Cadillac ATS-V a customer car yet, they would need to be able to offer support that could rival Audi and Mercedes and such if they wanted to actually sell the cars.

This has turned into a "who is more gte vs gt3" deal. But if you read Mr. Hedlund's comments above and then this excerpt from the interview

AW: It’s not as simple as just selling people cars …

DF: You have to have parts trucks, you have to have support, you have to have service. It is a monumental task to do that internally. And at the end of the day -- and I haven’t seen the numbers -- but when you figure the cost of service versus the cost of parts, all the things you have to do, I’m not sure it’s the huge moneymaker that everybody thinks it is.

So, without him knowing the official numbers, how can he say its more money? In the short term there may not be much difference. If GT convergence talks come to fruition, you could possibly do both with one type of car design.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by TF110

This has turned into a "who is more gte vs gt3" deal. But if you read Mr. Hedlund's comments above and then this excerpt from the interview



So, without him knowing the official numbers, how can he say its more money? In the short term there may not be much difference. If GT convergence talks come to fruition, you could possibly do both with one type of car design.

Maybe cause he's been in the business a pretty long time?? I'm sure he could estimate it pretty quickly and get close enough to know that Porsche and possibly Ferrari are the only ones even close to breaking even with their programs. It's not like he's been on the sidelines or learning the numbers from a forum, I'm sure he's pretty clued in as to what programs cost.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Maybe cause he's been in the business a pretty long time?? I'm sure he could estimate it pretty quickly and get close enough to know that Porsche and possibly Ferrari are the only ones even close to breaking even with their programs. It's not like he's been on the sidelines or learning the numbers from a forum, I'm sure he's pretty clued in as to what programs cost.

That was pretty much my answer, but I bet some other gt3 makers are profiting as well.


And before we get to far into the "corvette doesn't want gt3" is the Callaway program still going forward? Because that is a pretty good work around if GM don't want an official gt3 program.

[TF110]

Imo it sounded like he was pointing out negatives for gt3 to make the GTE Vette seem like a better choice. With the size of GM, they could do both. Viper does it and the amount of gt3's they sold you can probably count on one hand. I think its a shame they dont think its a viable business.

[Deleted]

WTR's penalty at Daytona now means that Corvette Racing's overall 4th place is the highest placement for any GT car at Daytona 24 / Le Mans 24 / Sebring 12 / PLM 10 since Le Mans 2006, when Corvette's C6.R GT1 finished 4th overall. The last time there was higher placement in these four was at Sebring 2006 (3rd, again for Corvette GT1)

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by rich07

Hoorah!!!!

I guess it'll be in GT-AM like their C6 program. Wonderful news

Yes, Labre confirm it is a WEC GTE-AM entry.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/l...ry-for-gte-am/







L.P.

[Coach Ep]

Let's see on Thursday if it gets in.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Let's see on Thursday if it gets in.

Yes it's 50/50 in my eyes

It's the only Corvette in class so it adds variety.
GM will push for it.
Larbre are French

On the other hand it's a last minute deal.
And keep in mind the ACO and Larbre have had their disagreements in the past. Who knows right?

[Lagunaseca_4life]

This is great news! Hopefully they can get in even if it's gte-am.the Astons,ferraris,and Porsche's have gotten soo boring.

Would be nice if Gm and corvette racing would team up with them and run a second car in Pro.would be a lot easier and cheaper ithan corvette racing going to the wec on their own.....