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Old 18 Nov 2011, 22:43 (Ref:2988524)   #1
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McLaren and Honda Back Again?

Courtesy of Joe Saward.

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The German magazine Auto Motor und Sport is a well-respected outlet and it is reporting that it has picked up rumours that suggest that McLaren may be trying to put together a new alliance for the future with Honda, which was its partner back in the 1980s and 1990s, when the team enjoyed huge success. The report says that the aim is for McLaren to use a Honda V6 Turbo in 2014. This would not be a surprise. The current deal with Mercedes Benz goes until 2015 at least but this can be terminated. The company is just going through the motions of buying the final 16 percent of the team that was previously owned by the German car manufacturer, the German competition authority began looking at the final transaction last week and clearance is expected shortly. The team is thus in a position to negotiate new deals as it pleases. There has been talk of the team doing its own thing on the engine front but this would be very expensive and the argument in Woking is that the logic of a racing engine department would require the sale of a lot more cars than is currently the case. A new alliance with a manufacturer is the logical next step if there is no in-house plan and Honda is an obvious choice for an engine. There have been rumours from Japan for some time that Honda was planning to return to F1 and is ready to go as soon as the board gives the go-ahead. The new generation engine with green technology to the fore is just what Honda wants to be associated with
More at the link:http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/...ren-and-honda/
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 00:38 (Ref:2988570)   #2
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I think this is a great piece of news...

I hope that it happens...
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 02:03 (Ref:2988610)   #3
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Honda build great engines for Indycar, and they know about turbo charging..
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 02:06 (Ref:2988611)   #4
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They will probably be looking at supplying more than just one team, but it's good news nonetheless.
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 02:15 (Ref:2988613)   #5
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Honda and F1 just sounds right...
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 02:27 (Ref:2988617)   #6
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It wouldn't be the first time that McLaren's current drivers have been at the wheel of a McLaren Honda V6 turbo.

Oops, sorry that's a TAG Porsche! (Honda's in 88) Still, it's a V6 turbo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Kez...eature=related

Last edited by Marbot; 19 Nov 2011 at 02:39.
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 02:47 (Ref:2988621)   #7
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None of this surpises me.
The McLaren-Honda combination was by far one of the most successful partnerships between a 'garagiste' and a major manufacturer. Ever.

It can't get much better than the 1988-1992 era for Honda and they made a mess of their own car and team, with the Lucky-Strike project and in 1966-1968 with themselves and John Surtees.

Any major manufacturer who teams up with a great engineering company like McLaren has a far better chance of success than going it alone, and McLaren and Honda know each other.
The principals of both companies have done business together before.
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 02:54 (Ref:2988622)   #8
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Name:	791px-McLaren_MP4-4_front-right_Honda_Collection_Hall.jpg
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ID:	35814Could we please have a car that looks like this please..
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 08:15 (Ref:2988665)   #9
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They will probably be looking at supplying more than just one team, but it's good news nonetheless.
If McLaren Technologies are supplying IP & equipment to Force India, and perhaps Marussia, presumably these may be the Honda 'customer' teams?
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 09:01 (Ref:2988674)   #10
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If McLaren Technologies are supplying IP & equipment to Force India, and perhaps Marussia, presumably these may be the Honda 'customer' teams?


Good point, maybe Mclaren can place young drivers with them. Would still like to see Paffet n green get a chance, got to be better than the likes of Pic.
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 09:11 (Ref:2988677)   #11
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Attachment 35814Could we please have a car that looks like this please..
If only....
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 11:57 (Ref:2988717)   #12
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It wouldn't be the first time that McLaren's current drivers have been at the wheel of a McLaren Honda V6 turbo.

Oops, sorry that's a TAG Porsche! (Honda's in 88) Still, it's a V6 turbo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Kez...eature=related

Ahhh, but wait a minute, Hamilton did try out a McLaren Honda. Namely, his hero, Senna's car! He did it for Top Gear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmBl_...eature=related

It would be good to Honda back in F1. McLaren and them have worked well together in the past. Plus, I suspect that Mercedes might like to put all their effort into their own team.
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 12:57 (Ref:2988728)   #13
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 14:46 (Ref:2988763)   #14
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Attachment 35814Could we please have a car that looks like this please..
I remember that. A stylish F1 car.

It's a relationship that makes sense. Reawakening a heroic relationship crowned in glory is a comparatively cost way of telling the world that Honda are back in business. Although people here are probably overestimating the aesthetic improvements that would come with such a deal!
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 16:58 (Ref:2988799)   #15
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I remember that. A stylish F1 car.

It's a relationship that makes sense. Reawakening a heroic relationship crowned in glory is a comparatively cost way of telling the world that Honda are back in business. Although people here are probably overestimating the aesthetic improvements that would come with such a deal!
A real beauty that car, and a fantastic partnership between two giants of technology... McLaren-Honda just rolls so well off the tongue..

Lets hope that the Honda engine has it's own sound as all the cars sound the same at the moment..

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Old 19 Nov 2011, 20:52 (Ref:2988872)   #16
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I wonder what Button thinks of those rumours.
He's got very recent experience of Honda.

When Honda last supplied Mclaren with the best engines on the grid, I would argue was 1990.
Senna, when he tested the Mclaren in testing before the 1991 season, complained bitterly that both the team and engine had not done sufficient for the forthcoming season. Honda had introduced the V12 over the winter.
After winning the first 4 races, everyone thought he was exaggerating, till the Williams finally came on song, then his words suddenly looked prophetic.

As a final thought, Honda is a proud engineering company, their best engineers working on the F1 engines. Do the new regulations allow creativity, or will they be restricted as they are now regarding development?
If so, I can't see the attraction for Honda.
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 22:08 (Ref:2988901)   #17
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Good point, maybe Mclaren can place young drivers with them. Would still like to see Paffet n green get a chance, got to be better than the likes of Pic.
From a marketing perspective, perhaps the McLaren operation would benefit from 'Honda' engines, while the other 2 may enjoy 'Acura' or 'Mugen' powerplants so as to keep the 'works' eggs in the McLaren basket...
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 22:46 (Ref:2988925)   #18
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There is also the prospect of a great deal of syndergy between the two companies with Honda motorsport efforts recieving assistance from McLaren Applied Technologies, with honda cars using Mclaren electronics and the prospect of the two companies collaborating on advanced engineeringand environmental issues.

While McLaren may never produce a 'mass produced' car is it possible a Mclaren badged Honda may appear as an advanced version of a touring car of limited production with an exclusive nature and price...?
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 22:52 (Ref:2988928)   #19
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I would be happy with a McLaren Honda Accord
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 23:29 (Ref:2988948)   #20
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I would be happy with a McLaren Honda Accord
So would I...
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Old 19 Nov 2011, 23:38 (Ref:2988952)   #21
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Maybe it's more a case of McLaren getting Honda to pay for Mclaren's own engine which has been in the offing for the last couple of years....

In a way it would be a bit like the Tag/Porsche deal that McLaren 'arranged'
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Old 20 Nov 2011, 01:21 (Ref:2988989)   #22
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Do the new regulations allow creativity, or will they be restricted as they are now regarding development?
If so, I can't see the attraction for Honda.
Honda are already trialling Hydrogen powered road cars, so you could argue that everything about F1, as far as Honda engineering technology is concerned, is restrictive. And I think that Honda have realised, as have many other car manufacturers, that the fossil fuel engine is not where the future of clean and efficient motive power lies, so is there really anything in it for anyone?

As many have said. If you continue to refine archaic Victorian age internal combustion engines, you are only holding off the future.

Hydrogen powered cars in F1? For the same reason that there perhaps won't be full electric vehicles in F1 (the 'show'), probably not. What will F1 do then?

But if they do come back to F1, I'm sure that they'll give it their best shot.

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Old 20 Nov 2011, 01:34 (Ref:2988993)   #23
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If Saward is right, there are great news! McLaren and Honda again...
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Old 20 Nov 2011, 02:59 (Ref:2989021)   #24
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As many have said. If you continue to refine archaic Victorian age internal combustion engines, you are only holding off the future.
There would need to be some rather dramatic and rapid advances in non-fossil fuel technology for something other than internal combustion to be widely viable in the next 10 years. Either that or the sudden appearance of a radically disruptive totally new technology.

Based on recent developments there seems to be quite a bit of life left in more fuel efficient fossils. In any case the use of electricity for vehicle motivation is hardly new and I somehow doubt that hydrogen as a fuel will be a practical mass use solution on the road, let alone the track, within the next 20 or 30 years. Still, the water output might keep Bernie happy by imposing his idea of wet races. No need for sprinkler devices.

Of course that assumes that Bernie will live forever and will not be locked up for some reason in the meantime.

ETA: The upshot of the timescales it that from a marketing POV over the typical life span of an engine supply arrangement it probably still makes sense fo Honda to have their name on something. Unless the FIA settles on a kit engine and changes the spec dramatically every year - in which case it could all get a bit daft and people might start to see through the branding games.

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Old 20 Nov 2011, 12:16 (Ref:2989161)   #25
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There would need to be some rather dramatic and rapid advances in non-fossil fuel technology for something other than internal combustion to be widely viable in the next 10 years. Either that or the sudden appearance of a radically disruptive totally new technology.
Well, there are several electric cars coming on to the UK market now, and several petrol/diesel engined range extended electric vehicles for those who know that an 100 mile range is not enough (95% of all car journeys in the UK are of less than 50 miles). All of them are considered to be "disruptive technology". Having recently driven a Vauxhall Ampere, I would say that the petrol/diesel engine is doomed to the life of a 'Donkey engine' at the very best.

I agree that Hydrogen powered road cars are a very long way off. Not only is the technology very expensive, but the infrastructure required is going to be extremely costly and most Hydrogen is refined from fossil fuels in the first place. And having Hydrogen in a very large fuel tank at 5,000 PSI is a little bit off putting to say the least!

Now, if Honda do come back into F1 it will be because they want to be 'seen' as a car manufacturer that knows a thing or two about efficiency.
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