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Old 29 Nov 2017, 02:40 (Ref:3783925)   #16
peckstar
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Although in the words of the great "Doc Hudson" Its just an empty cup
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 03:20 (Ref:3783928)   #17
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I find that " but could he do it in another team " argument a bit of a head scratcher no matter who its applied to. Part of being great in this sport is putting yourself in the right team at the right time and being surrounded by the right people. its a soft skill unto its self (along with its fair share of luck). He's beaten Lowndes and SVG as team mates to the title, both of which are top level and were strong performers at other teams.

Most importantly, and perhaps most applicable to the " other team " factor is he (and 888 as a whole) did it this year without Ludo. That is the major factor.

Could he do it in a Walkinshaw machine? Circa 2017 id say probably no one could. Circa 2007 id say yes definitely he could / would have.
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 03:53 (Ref:3783930)   #18
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I find that " but could he do it in another team " argument a bit of a head scratcher no matter who its applied to. Part of being great in this sport is putting yourself in the right team at the right time and being surrounded by the right people. its a soft skill unto its self (along with its fair share of luck). He's beaten Lowndes and SVG as team mates to the title, both of which are top level and were strong performers at other teams.

Most importantly, and perhaps most applicable to the " other team " factor is he (and 888 as a whole) did it this year without Ludo. That is the major factor.

Could he do it in a Walkinshaw machine? Circa 2017 id say probably no one could. Circa 2007 id say yes definitely he could / would have.

I guess i see someone like David reynolds who has gone to a lowly team and has lead them towards the top and place a high level of value on that.

the key people Jamie is compared against were often team owners and engineers who built quick cars, where as Jamie has been in the one team who have proven to be fast for many years,

If any of the current drivers stepped into a triple 8 car they would also be quick

that takes nothing away from Jamie, just something i would like to see him achieve
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 03:59 (Ref:3783931)   #19
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Razzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Most importantly, and perhaps most applicable to the " other team " factor is he (and 888 as a whole) did it this year without Ludo. That is the major factor.
The problem there is that JW clearly hasn't been as fast without Ludo. This is probably one of his worst seasons on a performance level having only won 4 races (1 of which was gifted to him). Possibly only his poor rookie season and the year he finished 5th were worse. Of his 7 titles this is by far his least dominant. Even Bathurst was the first time in a long time that he wasn't the dominant car.

The one that was really dominant is the very team/car Ludo went to... #17.

I do think JW is one of the GOAT in this series (not in all motorsports obviously... Fangio, Clark, Senna, Schumacher... no way he's better than them), but you have to wonder how much Ludo comes into it after this season.
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 04:19 (Ref:3783933)   #20
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Whincup opens up on ‘scary’ personal sacrifices

Gave up love and alcohol for this championship

I already thought he was the Goat. Still would be great to see him at another team
Little bit sad really isn't it. Walks away from his bride to focus on getting a 7th title. And alcohol... does JW have a bit of a weakness to alcohol?

I wonder if he'll still feel the same way regarding next years title. Plenty of drivers got that first title off their back and didn't work so hard after that (enjoyed life more) because they'd achieved want they wanted. Nico Rosberg.

I wonder if SVG beating him last year is what motivated him so much to get that 2017 title.
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 04:50 (Ref:3783938)   #21
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Mekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid

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Who's first then? Dale Earnhardt or Jimmie Johnson? All 3 were at prime from different eras with different rule sets, which I'd like to think that some applies to Oz drivers, too.

Always a good conversation, as to who's the greatest, but it never comes to a conclusive decision.
Juan Maria Traverso still lives... He was at Euro F2 in 1979 but had a lot (more than 15) titles in Argentine and Italy, in touring, rallying, and also formula racing.
Could win Turismo Carretera and TC2000 champs the same year, hardly that other driver could do the same...
With his locals, he's more popular and legendary than even Reutemann.

How appropiate that Mr Traverso played to voice for "Doc Hudson" in the Spanish neutral latino version of the movie...
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 05:15 (Ref:3783941)   #22
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Razor should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Apologies if I'm not up to date with lingo but what does the GOAT acronym stand for?
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 05:51 (Ref:3783943)   #23
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Numbers mean nothing really. Whincup's numbers can only be compared to other drivers at the top of their game now.

You can't match him with Lowndes at his best or Skaife, and you certainly can't compare his stats with Brock, Moffat or Geoghegan.

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So the second best driver then?
Given the opening post referenced Rossi as well, I can only assume FAS33 does indeed mean Whincup is the second best

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Apologies if I'm not up to date with lingo but what does the GOAT acronym stand for?
Greatest Of All Time
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 05:54 (Ref:3783944)   #24
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E.B should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridE.B should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridE.B should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Greatest Of All Time
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 06:11 (Ref:3783946)   #25
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Whincup opens up on ‘scary’ personal sacrifices

Gave up love and alcohol for this championship

I already thought he was the Goat. Still would be great to see him at another team
The ex-Fiancee Returns Serve
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 06:17 (Ref:3783948)   #26
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The trophy will keep him warm.”
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Congrats to Jamie on No. 7

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Old 29 Nov 2017, 07:53 (Ref:3783955)   #27
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HDTVKSS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Theres a surprise, ex partners disagree with each other over split...
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 08:03 (Ref:3783956)   #28
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Numbers mean nothing really. Whincup's numbers can only be compared to other drivers at the top of their game now.

You can't match him with Lowndes at his best or Skaife, and you certainly can't compare his stats with Brock, Moffat or Geoghegan.



Given the opening post referenced Rossi as well, I can only assume FAS33 does indeed mean Whincup is the second best



Greatest Of All Time
Numbers mean nothing.... Yet you mention drivers specifically for their driving record.

Skaife = total championships and Bathurst victories
Brock = total championships and Bathurst victories
Moffat = total championships and Bathurst victories
Lowndes = total championships and Bathurst victories
Ian Geoghegan = total championships

Your argument all comes down to Numbers lol

Beats all those drivers you mentioned in race wins, poles and Championships. Destroyed Lowndes multiple times.

Last edited by FAS33; 29 Nov 2017 at 08:13.
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 11:30 (Ref:3784005)   #29
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Numbers mean nothing.... Yet you mention drivers specifically for their driving record.

Skaife = total championships and Bathurst victories
Brock = total championships and Bathurst victories
Moffat = total championships and Bathurst victories
Lowndes = total championships and Bathurst victories
Ian Geoghegan = total championships

Your argument all comes down to Numbers lol

Beats all those drivers you mentioned in race wins, poles and Championships. Destroyed Lowndes multiple times.
No , I was saying you can't compare Whincup to Lowndes, Skaife, Moffat, Brock or Geoghegan because they raced in different eras. You can't compare Lowndes to Moffat, Skaife to Geoghegan, Whincup to Richards or whoever.
The racing is completely different in all of those era's, no stats can be relevant to eachother to make a reasonable comparison.

It's like saying Hamilton is better than Clark, based on what?

I'm still keen to hear what makes you think Rossi is the GOAT of Motorcycle Grand Prix racing?
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Old 29 Nov 2017, 11:46 (Ref:3784008)   #30
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No , I was saying you can't compare Whincup to Lowndes, Skaife, Moffat, Brock or Geoghegan because they raced in different eras. You can't compare Lowndes to Moffat, Skaife to Geoghegan, Whincup to Richards or whoever.
The racing is completely different in all of those era's, no stats can be relevant to eachother to make a reasonable comparison.
struggling to make ay sense of your argument

Its very easy to compare. 7 ATCC is greater than 1 ATCC (or 2,3,4,5). however at 6 maybe some other factors can come into play

I really struggle to see how anyone can deny that
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