Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 29 Nov 2017, 22:47 (Ref:3784179)   #46
Forda
Racer
 
Forda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 414
Forda should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
This is a bit rich, considering this years' title is right up there in status with the Kelly/Lowndes decider of 2006.
Forda is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2017, 02:53 (Ref:3784210)   #47
Jamolad
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 5
Jamolad should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffR View Post
You seem to miss the whole point of my comment re the start/win ratio for Moffat in the TransAm Mustang. The modern Stupidcars circuit has so many more events now than was ever the case back in the true ATCC days. Given that JW has only scored his wins/Championships with 888, does his race start/win percentage equal the 66% that Moffat had in the TransAm?
Don't think we missed the point of your comment, just don't think it is a valid point.

For Moffat's win ratio you are only looking at what he did in a single car (not his entire career), and are looking at results for ATTC races and non-ATTC races.

For JW you are looking at his entire ATTC career (not a single car) and are only looking at ATTC races.

Agree there are more races/events these days, but given you are comparing win conversion ratio then the number of races is irrelevant (calculating win ratio smoothes the differing number of races they entered)...so there is no need to restrict Moff's results to only those in the Mustang and there is no need to include non-ATTC races - you can simply compare their conversion ratio for all ATTC races they entered for their entire career.

Even if we accept your invalid comparison, Moffat has a better race win ratio but loses massively in terms of championships (0 to Moffat in the Mustang, 7 to Jamie in his career).
Jamolad is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2017, 03:11 (Ref:3784211)   #48
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,115
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Moffat - 100 ATCC starts, 32 wins.

Whincup - 434 ATCC starts, 108 wins.

Skaife - 220 ATCC starts, 90 wins.

Lowndes - 635 ATCC starts, 105 wins.

Brock - 212 ATCC starts, 37 wins.

Johnson - 202 ATCC starts, 22 wins.

Geoghegan - 42 ATCC starts, 9 wins.

Do the math on that. I couldn't be bothered.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2017, 03:17 (Ref:3784213)   #49
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
South Kingsville, VIC
Posts: 4,123
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBJim View Post
while once joining 888 Whincup has had more than an uninterrupted decade with the best car on the grid- once you factor this in, I'd put him above Whincup by a whisker for modern-era drivers. (how many wins does Whincup lose if you effectively zero out his late 20s?)
The problem is that you are acting as if the car is fast by magic, but it isn't, it is developed by the drivers. Look how fast the 888 VE was the first year after switching from Ford - it is no miracle...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FBJim View Post
If, theoretically, Lowndes had abandoned his F1 dreams and stayed with HRT through 2003 I'd think you'd be talking about a few more years before Whincup beat Lowndes' record of race wins.
And if me auntie had balls she'd be me uncle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Skaife - 220 ATCC starts, 90 wins.
Skaife's ratio is amazing, but you also have to factor in the GTR somewhat - people act as if a 888 car is not equal to others, but at least from a rules perspective it was!
Mixer is online now  
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2017, 03:26 (Ref:3784214)   #50
djr81
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 120
djr81 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
The problem is that you are acting as if the car is fast by magic, but it isn't, it is developed by the drivers. Look how fast the 888 VE was the first year after switching from Ford - it is no miracle...
I think you'll find that engineers do the engineering. Drivers don't find horsepower or handling or traction or aero or any of the other qualities you want in a race car. They just cry about things that aren't right, leaving it to the engineers to do the development and implement the changes.
djr81 is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2017, 03:34 (Ref:3784218)   #51
Mekola
Veteran
 
Mekola's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Kiribati
Kiribati
Posts: 6,393
Mekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid

Quote:
Originally Posted by FBJim View Post
It's worth noting that Lowndes lost five entire years of his prime in his aborted single-seater career, and...
His peak in single-seaters was in F3000 during 1997, when Lowndes was teammate of a certain JP Montoya... And also had a certain Dr Helmut Marko as team boss (just before his Red Bull association)... M'enfin, it seems notably F1 people years after...
How curious, Craig scored three points in F3000, as Traverso also scored three points in 1979 F2...
Mekola is online now  
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2017, 03:52 (Ref:3784226)   #52
chavez
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Australia
The Basin, Victoria
Posts: 1,833
chavez should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
The problem is that you are acting as if the car is fast by magic, but it isn't, it is developed by the drivers. Look how fast the 888 VE was the first year after switching from Ford - it is no miracle...



And if me auntie had balls she'd be me uncle.



Skaife's ratio is amazing, but you also have to factor in the GTR somewhat - people act as if a 888 car is not equal to others, but at least from a rules perspective it was!
Skaife's overall ATCC record is better than his GTR only stats.
chavez is online now  
__________________
Real race cars don't have doors.
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2017, 08:33 (Ref:3784253)   #53
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,350
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
quality is impossible to compare over periods of time.
Exactly, just like the rest of the stats.

Bare numbers prove nothing really.

Kim Jane won four straight Australian NASCAR titles, more than anyone else, does that mean he was the best driver in a NASCAR we've ever seen in Australia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAS33
you ask this question because you think someone else is the GOAT. making it possible someone CAN be the best ever. We think alike.
Well Agostini has more wins and Angel Nieto has more world championships, so how can you claim Rossi is the GOAT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa
Moffat - 100 ATCC starts, 32 wins.

Whincup - 434 ATCC starts, 108 wins.

Skaife - 220 ATCC starts, 90 wins.

Lowndes - 635 ATCC starts, 105 wins.

Brock - 212 ATCC starts, 37 wins.

Johnson - 202 ATCC starts, 22 wins.

Geoghegan - 42 ATCC starts, 9 wins.
Skaife had 220 'round' starts. He had many more 'race' starts

Lowndes & Whincup's figures you quote there are from individual race starts (sometimes as many as 4 per weekend). Skaife's individual race starts would be closer to the 300-400 range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer
Skaife's ratio is amazing, but you also have to factor in the GTR somewhat - people act as if a 888 car is not equal to others, but at least from a rules perspective it was!
Skaife won 10 races from 28 starts in the GTR across, 1990, 1991 and 1992

Last edited by one five five; 30 Nov 2017 at 08:40.
one five five is online now  
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2017, 08:44 (Ref:3784254)   #54
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,115
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Skaife had 220 'round' starts. He had many more 'race' starts

Lowndes & Whincup's figures you quote there are from individual race starts (sometimes as many as 4 per weekend). Skaife's individual race starts would be closer to the 300-400 range.
You're right. I was pressed for time when I posted it, and it does seem quite low.

482 seems to be the correct number.

Although the stats for the other drivers I've mentioned, seem to differ from site to site too.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2017, 09:04 (Ref:3784259)   #55
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 15,248
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
so a better stat is how many ATCC from attempts

Jamie is at 7 from 14 FT attempts 50%

Bit it really doesnt matter how you slice things 7 Championships - The GOAT
peckstar is online now  
__________________
Congrats to Jamie on No. 7

Looking forward to 8 fords in 2018
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2017, 09:06 (Ref:3784260)   #56
Razzzor
Veteran
 
Razzzor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 1,039
Razzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Alan Jones was a F1 world champion. Lowndes went up against Montoya and ended up with egg on his face. Food for thought.

Hey Jack Brabham made a few starts at Bathurst right? Does anyone really think Lowndes has what it takes to have been a 3 time F1 champ?

Scott Dixon and Seb Bourdais made a few starts in Supercars as well right.

I suppose part timers with a few starts we're not really counting though.
Razzzor is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2017, 09:41 (Ref:3784266)   #57
FAS33
Veteran
 
FAS33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Australia
1st - 6th gear
Posts: 1,730
FAS33 User had had their licence endorsedFAS33 User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Exactly, just like the rest of the stats.

Bare numbers prove nothing really.

Kim Jane won four straight Australian NASCAR titles, more than anyone else, does that mean he was the best driver in a NASCAR we've ever seen in Australia?



Well Agostini has more wins and Angel Nieto has more world championships, so how can you claim Rossi is the GOAT?



Skaife had 220 'round' starts. He had many more 'race' starts

Lowndes & Whincup's figures you quote there are from individual race starts (sometimes as many as 4 per weekend). Skaife's individual race starts would be closer to the 300-400 range.



Skaife won 10 races from 28 starts in the GTR across, 1990, 1991 and 1992
Because Jamie Wincup is the GOAT that's why.
FAS33 is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
So you are Jamie Whincup.... Micklegend Australasian Touring Cars. 49 8 Dec 2011 22:09
V8 Supercar Hot Lap with Jamie Whincup kscope Australasian Touring Cars. 2 2 Dec 2009 04:10
Jamie Whincup vs Will Davison: The new Skaife vs Seton? Mixer Australasian Touring Cars. 18 6 Nov 2009 22:10
Jamie Whincup to race Michael Schumacher, Mikko Hirvonen??? richie17 Australasian Touring Cars. 13 1 Nov 2009 17:35
Jamie Whincup in Townsville??? TurboShane Australasian Touring Cars. 26 10 Jul 2009 05:08


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.