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Old 5 Dec 2017, 09:31 (Ref:3785205)   #31
chavez
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Originally Posted by Gaz170 View Post
Same as when a ref makes a mistake during the football grand final. The result is when they blow the final whistle, they don't go back and change the result even if it's proven the ref got it wrong.
Except in motor racing you are often penalised after the race has finished.

The TV viewer switches off the TV or the spectator leaves the race track only to find later on the results have been changed.

Happens far too much in motorsport. Happens only very rarely in other sports.
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 09:42 (Ref:3785206)   #32
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Some seem to forget that the pit lane speed limiter only cuts in at or under 40km/h.

I personally don't think Supercars has a case to answer. It was the same system for everyone. Unless there's an anomaly with the DJRTP cars, they are perhaps clutching at straws.
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 10:06 (Ref:3785210)   #33
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Is there going to be a request for investigation into the decision by Race Control to punish the 2 nerfs Mr McLaughlin made on both SdS and Mr Lowndes?
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 10:27 (Ref:3785215)   #34
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Since there never was a speeding infringement, the celebration can't have contributed to it!
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Except they didn't get it wrong, see for yourself. Clearly the officials made an error when measuring the speed.
Why is it you are so keen to blindly accept DJRTP saying there wasn't an infringment, yet won't accept Race Control saying there was an infringement?
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 11:02 (Ref:3785225)   #35
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bludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
What could possibly be changed by winning that protest? Is it purely about vindication?
It isn't a protest. Regardless of the outcome of this meet and greet, the result cannot be changed as you cannot protest a decision made by a Judge of Fact. (NCR 181A (i) )


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Also, has it been confirmed wether Supercars use a radar or GPS timing loop for enforcing the pit lane limit?
They use neither. They have laser devices in the lane, and two loops 5m apart at pit entry.

If there was an error in the distance between the two loops, then more cars would have been pinged for speeding.

If the transponder was faulty or failing, the timing team would have been able to detect that and therefore not put as much trust in the result. It wasn't faulty or failing

At this juncture, Supercars have an absolute time measurement over the 5m distance. The only way that anyone could possibly say that Supercars is wrong is if the team has one source of information that clearly shows the time taken to transit the lane. Linking data to video to assume where a vehicle is (to a margin of error of 0.0212 seconds as taken from spooks post above) is not going to be feasibly good enough to be relied upon.
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 11:39 (Ref:3785229)   #36
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fomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridfomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Why is it you are so keen to blindly accept DJRTP saying there wasn't an infringment, yet won't accept Race Control saying there was an infringement?

In all modern sports, there is always a question of human element.
I know this as an AFl umpire, yes I missed some, made a to call to quickly ,
saw only half of the incident, but generally umpired the game in the spirit of things.
Like the NRL, the cowboys excepted they didnt play the best in one grand final, but how many tackles can you have.

If you know QLD, north bound from Bris there is a speed camera. It had a horrid history of picking speeding cars in the south bound lanes, but picture, cars in the northbound lanes.

Interesting court case over a period of time, the woman was never cleared of speeding, just the unit wasn't calibrated or the operator wasn't trained correctly. It cost a lot of dollars , no fine , but never cleared of supposed speeding.

If you hang out in Vic, there is a point to point (Supercars system) that catches ppl out . It uses the , distance x time system.
That is if u are doing the speed limit all is good, but if you hit it hard, then try to slow down,sad, you have exceeded the time, thefore you where speeding.

All DJRTP want to know, is this:

Supercars supply the unit in the cars. ( remeber Ambrose and some extra wires)

Supercars installed the system on the circuit

Supercars also have volunteers(CAMS Officials) , who have completed the course on RadarGun operation.

Is there a fault with the unit in the car, is there a fault with the readings or settings.

If you are a team owner in a controlled equipment series, and you got pinged, wouldn't you like to know which piece of equipment wasn't working correctly.

They bang on all the time about this , and the great Tim, said, we can tell by the telemetry what a car is doing ..

I myself don't have a side in this.
Do we go back to stop watches, men in white coats, or do we go forward and use electronic systems.

To me , I would go with modern equipment, sensors, light beams, point to point, take out the finger on the radar gun, making pit entry a tadd longer to slow down, unlike govt roads, where you do 100k's , but as soon as you exit, jump on the brakes to 60 ks or less

but thats my view
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 17:26 (Ref:3785273)   #37
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So if Penske know their data is less accurate/reliable than Supercars, what's their endgame here? Is it just to seed doubt about the quality of officiating?
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 22:49 (Ref:3785322)   #38
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Given that people can bet on the outcome of Supercar races with a betting company

It would be funny as hell if they (Supercars) were to be investigated for 'race fixing'
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 02:19 (Ref:3785349)   #39
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Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Supercars have made a statement re the timing loop for pit entry: "no error"
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 03:07 (Ref:3785356)   #40
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Would love to see some data from Supercars to go along with their statement.

And lol at calling anything "100% accurate"...
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 04:05 (Ref:3785359)   #41
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Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
Would love to see some data from Supercars to go along with their statement.

And lol at calling anything "100% accurate"...
I really don't know what data they could provide tbh.

The timing system is used to determine the speed over the timing loops at pit entry. I would think that any info pulled out of the timing system (other than the on screen readout of speed) would consist of lines of computer code.

Ultimately the meeting on Monday is for DJRTP to understand how the team got it wrong so that the team can make any changes necessary for the future.

As the timing system is accurate to 1/10000 of a sec, it is clearly a very accurate regime, probably more accurate at measuring actual speed between 2 points than any on-board data.
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 04:07 (Ref:3785360)   #42
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I hope Penske are looking long and hard into their configs and calibrations because they've got a pretty fundamental issue going on with it if the officials system is 100% accurate after posting the data they have of their cars performance.
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 04:23 (Ref:3785363)   #43
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An old, but relevant article

LDM releases data to prove pit speed innocence

Quote:
“That said, we agree with the fans. It seems crazy to wipe a car out of a race for a speed infraction of one or two km/h.’
“V8 Supercars has commenced a review into the tools, the system and the penalties around pit lane speeding.
And 4 years later we still get the same penalty, wonder what the result of the review was
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 05:30 (Ref:3785369)   #44
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Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You raise a really good point peckstar - if the punishment was more appropriate, it wouldn't cause quite so much controversy.
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 06:20 (Ref:3785372)   #45
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You raise a really good point peckstar - if the punishment was more appropriate, it wouldn't cause quite so much controversy.
In my mind, unless its blatant, should be the same as a jump start. 10 sec hold at next pit stop or time added at the end
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