"NASCAR races are some of the best races to watch."--Jenson Button

[Lee]

Crash Test,
I really can't see why you would think that I'm unhappy. Lets see, own a truck and car, a house, good paying job, pay the bills and have enough left over to see a movie or eat at a nice resturant, have quite a few friends, close friends, unfortunatly, don't see many of them too ofter, scattered all across the country, thank God for email and telephones. Yeah, wife left, and I'm divorced, job related, she couldn't put up with military lifestyle, although some would say that is a good thing, being divorced I mean. No, can say as I'm unhappy, just the opposite. You said that I should watch an open-wheel race on TV, said all I would see was helmets going by, and that the TV announcers wouldn't insult me, the family, etc. First, for some strange reason, I don't know why, but a helmet race doesn't even sound remotly intresting. I could just as easily walk into the local motorcycle shop
and run past the helmet rack and see that. I really don't think the announcers would insult anybody, they have their jobs to do, plus just exactly how long do you think the might be able to keep their jobs if instead of covering the race, they took to insulting the viewing audience? I'd bet my next month's paychecks, only a very short time! Look, I noted a hint of sarcasim in the two items in your post above, i.e. helmets going by and audience insulting TV announcers. That is why my reply has been somewhat along the same lines, up until this point. Now I'll turn serious. As mentioned to Doc, above, in my reply to his saying didn't I think that F-1 racing was more exciting than NASCAR racing, I attended a F-1 race live in 1996, and explained that, to me, it was the most boring time I'd ever had at a racetrack. It might very well suprise you to know that in the mid 70s I attended an open-wheel, Indy car event. It was either 1975 or 76, I really don't remember the year. It was held at Atlanta International Raceway, (long prior to the aquisition of the track by one O. Bruton Smith) sanctioned by USAC. This was long, long before cart or the irl was ever even thought of. It featured a USAC stock car race as well, sadly USAC folded their stock car division a few short years later. There were quite a few people in the stands that had followed the open-wheel cars down South from the North, and the Midwest, a sparce sprinkling of Southerners in the stands, but nowhere near as many as if it would have been a NASCAR race. Bobby and Donnie Allison, as well as a couple of other NASCAR drivers were entered, as the Grand National Division (now called Winston Cup) had an off week. The majority of the starting lineup was made up of the drivers that normally competed on the USAC stock car circuit, Don White, Butch Hartman, and Jack Bowsher were a few of the big names on that circuit at the time. There were also several Indy car driver pulling double duty that day as well. If I remember correctly, Bobby Allison won the race, which didn't sit too well with the open-wheel types in the stands. Now I know you don't want to here this, but there was the constant badgering from them, their usual B.S. "stupid rednecks", "dumb Southerners" etc. The track security guards stopped several potential fights from breaking out, they did quite a good job. Well, quite a few people got up and left after the conclusion of the stock car race, I'm sure some due to lack of intrest, but also others due to being fed up with the B.S. I decided to stick around and see just what was so great about these open-wheelers. Now remember, this was back when open-wheel drivers were household names in this country, names like Foyt, Unser, Rutherford to name a few. Unlike today, these drivers were well known through out the country. To borrow a rather foolish phrase that cart tried to peddle in 1996, these really were the "real cars and the real stars" of American open-wheel racing! Well, the race started, and seemingly was over a short time later. Things that I noticed, yes the cars were blazing fast, but there was very little passing, no side by side racing, nothing but a high speed parade. In short, it left alot to be desired as far as racing action goes. To this day, I could not tell you who even won the race. Based on the two open-wheel races that I attended, 1 Indy car, 1 F-1, I have come to this conclusion, Indy car races are boring, but they pale in comparism to F-1 races when talking about boring! Couple that with the "attitude", all I can say is, "thanks, but NO THANKS!" As to watching on the box, why would I want to watch a race, where I don't know (and don't care about) any of the drivers, or teams, a race that is boring to me, when in person, when I knew who the drivers were, I didn't care for? Besides, two other facts persist, first, most of the time these races take place, on another channel, at the same time as either a Busch or Winston Cup race, which I am not going to miss, and second, the cable box here at the house, is one of those kind that they use to determine viewership of various programs. If I watch a program, it is counted towards the ratings of that particular program, i.e. this particular event had a 1.7% rating. If you will remember, in one of the above posts, I stated that I would do nothing to support, promote etc. either one of the two open-wheel series either thru attendance of their events, or thru television ratings. To watch one would help it, that is something that I will not do! If you will also remember, this whole exchange resulted from a question ask by Joe Fan, as to why fans of various series could not get along. I answered his question as to why I felt that they could not, based on personal experience. If you don't like, don't agree with my answer, or my reasons as to why, so be it. You said that it was somewhat of a big problem, well yes, on that I will agree with you. The problem is simple, there are two racing series, in this country, that are in serious trouble. They both have very poor attendance at their events, with the exception of Indy, and maybe one or two others, and terrible television ratings. Because of the assinine attitude of a large majority of their fans, toward the fans of other racing series, the have damaged their ability to attract fans to their events, especially in the Southern states! This is a big problem, their problem. So, as stated in one of my posts above, on this issue, you and I will have to "agree to disagree." Neither you, or I are going to change our respective opinions, on this matter, so to continue this discussion further is pointless, therefore it is a closed issue. Good evening.

[Lee]

Crash Test,
You said, "NASCAR belong on ovals."

That is one thing that you and I are in complete agreement on. Stock cars are oval track machines. Taken off of ovals, either short tracks, or superspeedways, they are boring. That is why the only Winston Cup races that I don't watch each year are Sears Point and Watkins Glen. What do ya know, we finally agree on something . See you later.

[Crash Test]

Indeed They would be half all right if they got rid of half of their roll cage, and had brakes that were twice the size...

[kmchow]

Crash Test wrote:

>Indeed They would be half all right if >they got rid of half of their roll cage, >and had brakes that were twice the size...
>
But recall Crash Test, that bad brakes mean you gotta watch how you drive. It should make for "exciting" cornering and diving situations? I'm playing devil's advocate.

I find Nascar's racing too be artificially controlled (rule changing)--I've tried to watch a lot of races. Couldn't keep do it for more than 5 minutes.

However, I really like to watch the Nascar information/news shows and really think F1/Cart can learn from Nascar's business/marketing machine.

I like Nascar's sponsors a lot more than F1s.
Cart is a little better since I recognize the sponsors a little more. IRL is pretty Nascar like in terms of sponsors.

[Crash Test]

The reason they need brakes twice the size of the current ones are that they are so pathetically lacking in that department, they brake where a normal touring car would still be getting into top gear...

Sponsors?
Eh, they're all the same.
Although Nascar does have some weird and wonderfuls in there.. toilet paper, viagra, washing detergent, breakfast cereal, 5 different brands of cola on the one car... if only f1 had that many sponsors...or if any other sport period...