Ricciardo vs Vergne ( vs Raikkonen)

[bauble]

Boxing News.

Result
Seb 'The Jerry' Vettel V Mark 'Aussie Grit' Webber. KO Vettel.

Next on Bill.
Eric 'The Frog' Vergne V Dan 'The Coming Man' Ricciardo. Over 8 Rounds

[bella]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

I suppose I need to remember that it looks like you are French so Jev can do no wrong and despite what you say you really are trying to say something else

no, i'm 100% british. my "favourite" drivers are french, swiss, danish, kiwi and swedish. i pick them because i've seen them do, say, or be out of the ordinary in their careers before f1. some of them aren't in single seater motorsport any more, but are justifying my "belief" by being damn good there too

i couldn't give a flying sheep where they were born. which makes the aussie and kiwi loyalty a bit confusing!

[OZ_HCR32]

nope... your obviously French and very confused.

You must be a rather odds sports fan...you dont barrack for your nations sporting teams, sportsman/sporstwomen in Olympics, World Championships, Wold Cups...your fav sports?

Doesnt mean they are your favourites...but you like to see them go well. My fav driver at present is French and would rather see him beat all comers...inc any Aussie in the field

[bella]

no, that's the joy of being a european, you see. you can pick and choose who you like and where you live i admire the british athletes and teams in the same way as anyone else. i will admit to supporting the english cricket team but that's because there's no joy greater than watching the aussies lose the ashes

[OZ_HCR32]

Originally Posted by bella

no, that's the joy of being a european, you see. you can pick and choose who you like and where you live

oh wow you have freedom! Sure your not American? See, its so easy and stupid to do LOL, so lame when people pigeon hole ...which was the point of my original diatribe post re nationality

But OT...I am still not convinced Dan, whilst he may be the RB pick of the current STR squad... i am nervous that Lotus will become an also ran squad with no Kimi ans STR a dead end drive for a few years with Kimi taking the RBR seat. You wonder if being an RB Jr driver is an all or nothing option for F1 at least....and drivers like Jev and to a lesser extent Dan would may have had more F1 options if they had got test drive chances with likes of FI, Sauber etc on the back of their Jr category drives...being RBR Jrs seems to limit them to STR and RB or nothing....Hard to know which is the wider net to be casting

[Razzzor]

Hehe bella I don't think you represent most sporting fans in that you don't favour your own country. Perhaps part of it is because britain has just had so many great champions, and so many drivers in F1, that it doesn't matter anymore. And it's more the smaller countries that support their countrymen a little more, because we're not used to winning.

I certainly support Dixon and Evans more than anyone else. But since there's no kiwi in F1 I'm also big fans of Schumacher and Vettel, just because they're so fast.

I also disagree about seeing Vettel sulk on the podium if 3/4s through 2014 Dan actually beats him in a race. I'm quite sure Vettel would be happy for him and congratulate him - he seems quite secure in his own abilities and won't lose confidence in having a teammate beat him. Especially since he says he'll go up against anyone in F1 and is happy to have Kimi on the team.

Hamilton is the same. Rosberg has beaten him earlier in the season, and although he did seem a little in the doldrums, it appears to have just given him more motivation to turn it around instead of sulking.

Strangely, Alonso is not the same and doesn't seem to handle a teammate beating him.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Hehe bella I don't think you represent most sporting fans in that you don't favour your own country. Perhaps part of it is because britain has just had so many great champions, and so many drivers in F1, that it doesn't matter anymore. And it's more the smaller countries that support their countrymen a little more, because we're not used to winning.

maybe it's a girl thing then. sport isn't so much tribal for many of us i guess, like football is. for example all my female friends from a fair range of countries follow non-local drivers. it's exactly the opposite for them, particularly the russians who have no history in motorsport so they just pick someone to follow.

and oz_hcr32, i'm not pigeonholing. i'm stereotyping and maybe i'm being dumb, but i don't see a diatribe post of yours about nationality!

[FAS33]

I'm glad no girls will be on the grid in F1 next year (((((Jokes))))))

I Support Vettel cause he's Quick, nationality shouldn't come into it, but obviously for the most of us, alot here don't like him cause he's german and he has the best car, obviously were gonna support a driver from our own country, and that's why Daniel will win next year's WDC, the coolest guy since that guy in the le man movie.

Aus sport>Eng sport

[bella]

Originally Posted by FAS33

Aus sport>Eng sport

yeah you're totally right.

*cough* ASHES *cough*

[andy666]

Originally Posted by bella

yeah you're totally right.

*cough* ASHES *cough*

*cough*Lion`s Tour*cough*

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by bella

we're not entirely agreeing, you're still doing the aussie webber apologist bit really i'd like to say it's a cultural difference between what a british person believes is the correct attitude for webber to take and what an aussie believes is the correct thing to do, but di resta is hardly keeping a low profile about all his injustices on a more topical note it's interesting to compare the way di resta is reacting to his situation with the way that vergne and ricciardo are handling the same kind of strategy misfires and gambles.

i'm really not sure he'll be able to run vettel close enough in the races very often at all. given an even shot at a race he can barely manage to keep up with jev, and he's not vettel by any means. but he'll definitely make vettel up his game in qualifying, it's going to be *seriously* interesting to see once he gets his feet under the table a bit.

Ricciardo is walking into a massive hornets nest. Webber have been able to handle it (sort of) because he's an adult. The only kids who can handle this are the aliens, the sociopaths and the selfish. Dan's way too nice a guy and what we don't know is what happens when he gets really bummed out. I predict it will be like when Kovalainen was at Macca. Totally fine but kinda pointless. Turned him into a GP winner which I suppose is pretty cool but thank god they got a proper Class 1 driver into that seat.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by bella

yeah you're totally right.

*cough* ASHES *cough*

Originally Posted by andy666

*cough*Lion`s Tour*cough*

*cough* More Rugby and Cricket World Cups then Britain combined *cough*

[321Go]

Daniel Ricciardo, driver of Red Bull Racing's RB10 F1 car.

Has a nice ring to it doesn't it?

This will be fun.

[Born Racer]

I wish Rick Cardo's name would be pronounced properly.

[p-matt]

Bild are reporting that Dan will be unveiled as the new Red Bull driver at Spa.

I just can't help but feel very underwhelmed by him as a choice. Red Bull is a world class team and needs a world class driver. Ricciardo is solid but not spectacular. There are simply just much better drivers in the paddock, including JEV, who deserve it more. Ultimately no other top team would even consider Dan based on his career to date. It just feels wrong that he coasts into the best team of them all when his racecraft leaves a lot to be desired still.

Right - the Australians can lynch me now!

[dsg]

Originally Posted by p-matt

Right - the Australians can lynch me now!

No need to, you have just done that all by yourself.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by p-matt

Bild are reporting that Dan will be unveiled as the new Red Bull driver at Spa.

I just can't help but feel very underwhelmed by him as a choice. Red Bull is a world class team and needs a world class driver. Ricciardo is solid but not spectacular. There are simply just much better drivers in the paddock, including JEV, who deserve it more. Ultimately no other top team would even consider Dan based on his career to date. It just feels wrong that he coasts into the best team of them all when his racecraft leaves a lot to be desired still.

Right - the Australians can lynch me now!

Average Qualifying Position:

Ricciardo 9.9

Vergne 13.2

When analysed, Vergne qualifies 6 places behind Ricciardo on average!



RBR have got it right if they choose Ricciardo from their young driver program, Kimi, that is another matter!

[p-matt]

^Which of them scored more points this year and last?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by p-matt

^Which of them scored more points this year and last?

Vergne

16 - 13 in 2012
&
11 - 10 so far this year.

Given the strange and differential race strategies STR runs between the two cars I would submit that 4 points over 2 years means nothing. The car is not a regular points threat.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by p-matt

^Which of them scored more points this year and last?

Vergne scored more points last year and has scored more this year, but you already know this.

However there were 13 events in 2012 where both drivers finished. interestingly in 9 of those races they were one Torro Rosso after the other. In other words to progress one would have to overtake their team mate.
In the other 4 one was more than one place ahead of the other.
So it went like this:
DR 9th JEV 11th
JEV 8th DR 12th
The next three races JEV was one place ahead of DR
Then DR had a retirement
Then DR was a place ahead of JEV
Then JEV had a retirement
The next 3 races DR was one place ahead of JEV
At Spa both were in the points and JEV was ahead, 8th and 9th
The next two races JEV retired.
In Japan DR was 10th, JEV 13th
The next race they were 8th and 9th, JEV ahead.
In India DR was 13th, JEV was 15th.
Abu Dhabi DR 10th JEV 13th.
USA JEV retired, DR 12th
Brazil JEV 8th, DR 13th

Dicing with your team mate is probably a not encouraged practise. They are not quick but still 'learning'.

I have not gone into the events of each race but only on two occasions was JEV substantially ahead of DR and on those two occasions scored good points but DR did not. This accounts for most of the the difference in points. In a majority of races they finished one ahead of the other.

That they were relatively close in a majority of events and when both finished an event not in line astern there were usually only one or two places in it tends to indicate that there is very little in race pace.

The exceptions were probably accounted for by the actual events of the specific race. Where both had trouble free runs they finished together so whatever driver you support, the points and results aren't useful as a indicator of their relative merits over the other.

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by wnut

Average Qualifying Position:

Ricciardo 9.9

Vergne 13.2

When analysed, Vergne qualifies 6 places behind Ricciardo on average!

When analysed, you need a new calculator as 13.2 minus 9.9 is 3.3 - not 6.

[billybanana]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I wish Rick Cardo's name would be pronounced properly.

What as in different to how his family pronounce it ? Why would you want that ?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

When analysed, you need a new calculator as 13.2 minus 9.9 is 3.3 - not 6.

Sadly not John, not everything is quite that obvious and can be done on a calculator.

The average qualifying positions between Ricciardo and Vergne:

Ricciardo 9.9
Sutil 10.3
Button 10.5
Perez 11.2
Hulkenberg 12
Di Resta 12.89
Vergne 13.2

[p-matt]

Rather than fixating on the Riccardo vs Vergne point which has been done to death, could anyone honestly say that, removing the context behind it, Ricciardo deserves a seat in the champion team based on his performances to date.

In other words, if he wasn't part of the Red Bull driver programme, would a team like Red Bull, or even Merc, Ferrari, Lotus or McLaren, even consider him?

[FAS33]

if dan gets equal treatment at redbull he can win the championship. those toro rosso's are buses. and he still manages to outqualify the car. raikonen couldnt handle a redbull anyway, he's already in a fast car, give someone with skillz a go, Dans the man.

my 2 favourite F1 drivers in one team. chooooooohoooooo!!