The way forward for Amateur Single Seat racing globally.

[Aguri]

I think with the gradual global demise of the wingless Formula Ford and Super Vee's; there is space for a new class of club level single seat racers going forward.

I'd like to see a budget series started utilising:
- space frame tub's
- 1000cc production motorcycle engines
- spec sequential gearboxes
- spec ECU
- radial tyres
- no wings

Seal the engines at the start of every season obviously, and limit competitors tyre usage. Budget racing for the 21st century.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Aguri

I think with the gradual global demise of the wingless Formula Ford and Super Vee's; there is space for a new class of club level single seat racers going forward.

I'd like to see a budget series started utilising:
- space frame tub's
- 1000cc production motorcycle engines
- spec sequential gearboxes
- spec ECU
- radial tyres
- no wings

Seal the engines at the start of every season obviously, and limit competitors tyre usage. Budget racing for the 21st century.

Drop the spec gearbox, motorcycles come with perfectly good sequential boxes.
Run the standard rad ECU, and spec the ones allowed.
Radial tyres - Standard road tyres
No wings - perfect!

I think you are on to something!

[ss_collins]

I'd say use the new Honda V-Tec Turbo 1000cc engine...

Not sure about the spec sequential boxes - all of the motorsport versions are fairly costly.

[davyboy]

Yep... like the idea and as others have said... just take the entire powertrain [motor and box] from the bike and use a chain to the rear... no need for spec. sequential box.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Aguri

Budget racing for the 21st century.

Is it really "budget" racing if you create a new class which will require every competitor, at least in the first year, to buy a new car? The average club driver just doesn't have the funds to do that.

I think we also need to accept that, like it or not, "slicks & wings" is what aspiring young drivers seem to want.

[andrewc]

Apart from the wings, I think you've just invented Formula Jedi, or JKS/Speads cars (and I suspect the wings are more show than go on a Jedi/Speads)

Congratulations, your time machine is working well!

The main problem with bike engines is that bikes do not generate cornering G in the same way, but cars do, so a bike engine really needs careful thought to the lubrication system. Some people just over-fill them...

[bozla]

Originally Posted by andrewc

Apart from the wings, I think you've just invented Formula Jedi, or JKS/Speads cars (and I suspect the wings are more show than go on a Jedi/Speads)

Congratulations, your time machine is working well!

The main problem with bike engines is that bikes do not generate cornering G in the same way, but cars do, so a bike engine really needs careful thought to the lubrication system. Some people just over-fill them...

I personally like the idea of going back to formula junior regs, but forcing the use of a transverse engine and gearbox, brakes, driveshafts, uprights etc. all from a modern production car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Junior

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by bozla

I personally like the idea of going back to formula junior regs, but forcing the use of a transverse engine and gearbox, brakes, driveshafts, uprights etc. all from a modern production car.

That was done in the late 1980s in the UK. Formula First (not to be confused with the current Formula Vee-based cars) used the engine & gearbox from the contemporary Ford Escort XR3 in a Van Diemen spaceframe chassis. Anothere Formula which had a brief life before fading into obscurity.

[andrewc]

The cars may not have had a long life in the professional world, but they served as faithful and reliable driving school and experience day cars for years. I remember doing a days Formula First driving at Brands Hatch 23 years ago.

I expect Ben Edwards and Oliver Gavin have a lot to thank Formula First for!

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Aguri

I think with the gradual global demise of the wingless Formula Ford and Super Vee's; there is space for a new class of club level single seat racers going forward.

I'd like to see a budget series started utilising:
- space frame tub's
- 1000cc production motorcycle engines
- spec sequential gearboxes
- spec ECU
- radial tyres
- no wings

Seal the engines at the start of every season obviously, and limit competitors tyre usage. Budget racing for the 21st century.

That sounds similar to Formula B or F600 in the States. F600 in particular.

[itdontgo]

I'm sure you'd be better making an electric car series. They are easier to keep the same with regards power output, cheaper, no lubrication issues... Plus they have a future

20 min races are about right for a battery pack

[tristancliffe]

Except they are worse for the environment...

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by itdontgo

I'm sure you'd be better making an electric car series. They are easier to keep the same with regards power output, cheaper, no lubrication issues... Plus they have a future

20 min races are about right for a battery pack

Electric cars will have a future when someone manages to bring about a fundamental change in the laws of physics. As town runabouts, yes, but as a serious proposition for a one-car household, no.

. . . & the day racing cars go electric will be the day I, & many more, give up marshalling.

[andrewc]

Instead of having 20 racing cars per grid belching out fumes at the circuit, you will have the generators for 20 racing cars per grid belching out fumes at the circuit, charging them up before and after each track session.

I doubt any circuits electrical infrastructure could cope with the current demands of many electric vehicles needing quick charging systems, hence bringing in generators which will run on fossil fuel.

[bozla]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Electric cars will have a future when someone manages to bring about a fundamental change in the laws of physics. As town runabouts, yes, but as a serious proposition for a one-car household, no.

. . . & the day racing cars go electric will be the day I, & many more, give up marshalling.

Not before the noise Nimbys shut down all the circuits...

[itdontgo]

Originally Posted by andrewc

Instead of having 20 racing cars per grid belching out fumes at the circuit, you will have the generators for 20 racing cars per grid belching out fumes at the circuit, charging them up before and after each track session.

I doubt any circuits electrical infrastructure could cope with the current demands of many electric vehicles needing quick charging systems, hence bringing in generators which will run on fossil fuel.

I didn't suggest it for environmental reasons more practical low cost reasons. You would probably need three sets of batteries though. I reckon they would be brilliant to drive especially on tight circuits. How easy is it to just floor the throttle on a FF1600? If you had all the torque of an electric motor you'd have to be really careful.

True they would be quiet but again a FF1600 is just noisey it's not a nice noise it's just noise... and there is another problem solved for the circuit owners.

[tristancliffe]

3 sets of batteries at about £5000+ per set? Right....

[itdontgo]

I've no idea to be honest. I know I used £150 of fuel last time out and my engine rebuild is £3k. Electric cars should be cheaper long term. Perhaps I should build one

[gixermark]

a Jedi fits the bill perfectly... they have their own championship, or you could run in monoposto - which by its nature has a good mix of single seaters.

i definitely think a basic/simple light single seater with bike engine makes sense - but i would have zero interest running my Jedi with treaded tyres ! why would you ! ?

pick the right compound of slick - and they will outlast a set of treaded tyres anyway, plus the grip/feel is proper. if the concern of having to need two sets of wheels/tyres (to allow for wet) then go in the middle and opt for ACB10s or ZZRs (or similar)

[itdontgo]

I think there were 40 Electric Formula Student cars this year compared to 4 the previous year. I'm telling you it's the future

http://youtu.be/--00vQ1QyOs

[gixermark]

that is pretty serious acceleration !!

[JimW]

Originally Posted by andrewc

Instead of having 20 racing cars per grid belching out fumes at the circuit, you will have the generators for 20 racing cars per grid belching out fumes at the circuit, charging them up before and after each track session.

I doubt any circuits electrical infrastructure could cope with the current demands of many electric vehicles needing quick charging systems, hence bringing in generators which will run on fossil fuel.

Donington's can.

Jim