[VASC16R25] SuperCheap Auto Bathurst 1000: 6-9 Oct (WITH POLL)

[D.R.T.]

When did motorsport introduce the PLP language?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

When did motorsport introduce the PLP language?

Long time ago - very end of last century from memory. used in F1, sportscars first I think.

[D.R.T.]

F1 and Sportscar commentators and FIA refer to penalties as PLP?

I will need to listen more carefully I guess

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

F1 and Sportscar commentators and FIA refer to penalties as PLP?

I will need to listen more carefully I guess

FIA certainly do - PLP = Pit Lane Penalty.

Commentators who knows? Some might call them a drive through. But then, plenty of media have been referring to 888's Appeal as a Protest, which is not the same. Same as some teams still call the safety car the pace car etc. Not everything or everyone uses absolute precision all the time.

[ford71]

Originally Posted by Average Punter

Willy D should thank the boneheads in race control for taking out a prime passing spot with the ridiculous local yellows for Todd's car....

It clearly needed a Safety Car!

The fact that's there's only a few laps to go should never compromise safety.......

Agree that a SC should have been called out.

And would have been, without doubt, if there was more laps left of the race than what the recovery would have taken.

Its very wrong of RC to make that part of their decision.

[ford71]

I found it somewhat amusing that the car that won was the car that was totally ignored by the commentary team while they were blabbing on about the differences/fuel/stops of the #88 and #97 with car #19 sitting in between the 2 Redbull cars.

If I didn't have Live Timing sitting beside me to confirm, I would have thought they were ignoring the presence a lapped car.

Not a fan of Will really, but stoked he and Jono got the win and even more pleased a "little" team got the job done. Well done Tekno!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by ford71

I found it somewhat amusing that the car that won was the car that was totally ignored by the commentary team while they were blabbing on about the differences/fuel/stops of the #88 and #97 with car #19 sitting in between the 2 Redbull cars.

If I didn't have Live Timing sitting beside me to confirm, I would have thought they were ignoring the presence a lapped car.

Not a fan of Will really, but stoked he and Jono got the win and even more pleased a "little" team got the job done. Well done Tekno!

Agree...loved the 169 cameras comment "to catch all the action" when they used it to watch and empty track following Jaime for about 5 laps at a critical part of the end of the race...I think they are losing the plot and what they are there for

[275 GTB-4]

Did anyone get video or know where to get video of the Drivers Parade on Sunday ?

[Driver TBA]

*

This Red Bull appeal could get very messy for the team if successful.* Make no mistake, if successful this will cause angst with 888 customer Tekno and to a lesser extent Lucas Dumbrell who I think are still a 888 customer?

Van Giz currently holds a (provisional) 139 point lead over Whincup in the championship.* If the appeal is successful, Whincup retakes the lead by 35.* Expect some unhappy campers if Whincup beats Van Giz by less than 139 point at season end.

Thankfully they’re all the same make of car on the podium and we don’t have to deal with manufacturers and their supporters getting involved.

*

This is not how anyone wants to see the biggest race of the year end.* In some respects a drive thru penalty to Whincup, while maybe too harsh a punishment would have stopped this.



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[Micklegend]

I think the sport needs to follow the rules such as those used in footy, play to the whistle, not what you think should be penalised.
If race control see an incident, let them call for a redress or a drive through rather than allowing the onus on the driver/team to make their own call. This would reduce the confusion and leave the arguments directly with the team and race control rather than drivers.
In the footy example (nrl), you see forward passes be let go or a knock on, where defending players stop defending waiting for a call while the attacking team goes ahead and scores. Call the play back if warranted.
In this case, Whincup could have raced on and waited for a call rather than pulling up and effectively brake testing someone else. Tander could have chased as expected and then potentially inherited the lead if Whincup was called back to redress. The loser...scott Mac, however bad that is for him would still have been behind Tander, but then you can say 'that's racing'.
Race control can still have their grading and it would reduce rubbish like this happening again.
Tander would have been the beneficiary of the Whincup mistake and scott would have held a position over Whincup forcing him to try again...once bitten twice shy perhaps?

[chavez]

For almost a hundred years Jamie's indiscretion would have been seen as a racing incident - sadly these days every mistake needs a penalty, every misjudgement should be punished and never allow the drivers sort it out on track like they did for one hundred years.

[peckstar]

just got home, as normal great weekend away.

great race, slow and strategic start, i was hoping they would go 161 with no SC, but i was the minority

redress rules- need more work to continue
lots of passion in grandstand re the incident, crowd very vocal, jamie wasnt popular.

clearly a post race penalty is a weak decision and now will have consequences. in hind sight unless they win appeal, a PLP would have hurted less.

[one five five]

Exciting finish, as it usually is these days....

But....Please....

Bring in the VSC/WEC Slow Zones, make the whole 161 laps count again. Some of the driver interviews (and fan comments) during the first half of the race were ridiculous... complaining because the racing didn't stop! Instead of people like Tander complaining about how there were no safety cars, why weren't they complaining to their teams, co-drivers or themselves for how they couldn't get within 30secs of Whincup/Dumbrell in a "parity" formula?

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by peckstar

clearly a post race penalty is a weak decision and now will have consequences. in hind sight unless they win appeal, a PLP would have hurted less.

Interesting point. The advantage of a post race time penalty is that if it's found to be wrong, it can be reversed. The disadvantage is it gives an opportunity for someone to try to prove it was wrong!

Given the awkward nature of the incident I'd marginally lean towards they did the right thing as it gives a chance for it to be fully reviewed and investigated in order to work out what is the right penalty, but only marginally and I'd struggle to argue against dealing with it there and then. It seems reasonable that the driver who was largely responsible for both parts of the incident can't be allowed to go without penalty and win the race as a result, even though I thought he looked as if he was trying to do the right thing.

But you're right in that the redress rules need looking at. I get the reasoning behind them but the outcome is not right.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by one five five

Exciting finish, as it usually is these days....

But....Please....

Bring in the VSC/WEC Slow Zones, make the whole 161 laps count again. Some of the driver interviews (and fan comments) during the first half of the race were ridiculous... complaining because the racing didn't stop! Instead of people like Tander complaining about how there were no safety cars, why weren't they complaining to their teams, co-drivers or themselves for how they couldn't get within 30secs of Whincup/Dumbrell in a "parity" formula?

No. We don't need other racing series rules. WEC is boring anyway.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Triple Eight Race Engineering to protest race result.

Now we will see where the real power is 888/Dane or V8SC. I know where my money is....

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by FAS33

No. We don't need other racing series rules. WEC is boring anyway.

Never miss the chance for a cheap shot at sports cars, do you. "In your opinion" for that one, and it's not like you get to experience it live every year.

SC is already 'other series rules' so you're already on insecure ground, imported from the States into F1 and then infected nearly everywhere else.

But you do have a point. If drivers obey yellow flags, you don't need Safety Cars, the last three laps proves that.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Now we will see where the real power is 888/Dane or V8SC. I know where my money is....

No we won't. The appeal is against a decision of the CAMS stewards, not against a decision made by anyone at VASC.

[peckstar]

Jonathon Webb, first person to do the 12 Hour/1000 in a year

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Jonathon Webb, first person to do the 12 Hour/1000 in a year

Fair steerer, given how little seat time he gets. Real quiet achiever.

[johnh875]

Woolley, I would agree with the commentators that the drivers were still at 100% speed through the Chase, although clearly without any overtaking attempts. I wonder if the micro-sector timing they referred to would yield anything interesting.

On Whincup's penalty, I would agree it was marginal as a racing incident. If there was sealed run-off, McLaughlin probably could have regained the circuit directly behind Whincup. The tricky part is the fine line between discouraging people from attempting overtakes with overly draconian penalties, and opening the door for cynical BTCC style "push to pass", ie push the car in front off the road.

Clearly Whincup had a guilty conscience on the McLaughlin overtake, and in view of the 888 appeal it is a shame he wasn't penalised for causing the subsequent collision; I imagine from a legal point of view that will be irrelevant in the appeal, and possibly off the table, when that was the more significant incident. Of course McLaughlin's rejoin to the track is a big issue here too - he went to the middle of the track.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by johnh875

Woolley, I would agree with the commentators that the drivers were still at 100% speed through the Chase, although clearly without any overtaking attempts. I wonder if the micro-sector timing they referred to would yield anything interesting.

On Whincup's penalty, I would agree it was marginal as a racing incident. If there was sealed run-off, McLaughlin probably could have regained the circuit directly behind Whincup. The tricky part is the fine line between discouraging people from attempting overtakes with overly draconian penalties, and opening the door for cynical BTCC style "push to pass", ie push the car in front off the road.

Clearly Whincup had a guilty conscience on the McLaughlin overtake, and in view of the 888 appeal it is a shame he wasn't penalised for causing the subsequent collision; I imagine from a legal point of view that will be irrelevant in the appeal, and possibly off the table, when that was the more significant incident. Of course McLaughlin's rejoin to the track is a big issue here too - he went to the middle of the track.

The issue is that McLaughlin caused the rest of the collision, if not for him Tander would have been past Whincup no problem.

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by Mixer

The issue is that McLaughlin caused the rest of the collision, if not for him Tander would have been past Whincup no problem.

But if not for whincup slowing on a live race track, both himself and tander would have been well down the road away from Scotty's rather quick re-entry.

Remember, JC was penalized for slowing during SC. Slowing for a redress can work between two cars, but chuck a third in and it's a potential disaster

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Jonathon Webb, first person to do the 12 Hour/1000 in a year

Allan Grice won the Tooheys 1000 with HRT in 1990, then went onto win the James Hardie Bathurst 12 Hour in 1991 in Peter Fitzgerald's Supra... still inside the same 12 month time period, albeit not the same year.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Compromised

But if not for whincup slowing on a live race track, both himself and tander would have been well down the road away from Scotty's rather quick re-entry.

I disagree, Tander really didn't slow down at all, hence clipping Whincup on the way through.

Originally Posted by Compromised

Remember, JC was penalized for slowing during SC. Slowing for a redress can work between two cars, but chuck a third in and it's a potential disaster

I don't disagree about the redress being problematic when there is more than one car involved, but Courtney's offence is utterly irrelevant to what we are talking about.